On Hold 21st Hall Book Version and Movie Version Discussion

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BWOT

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#1
-:- 21st Hall Book Version and Movie Version Discussion -:-
I am not sure if you are aware but we have got to the 21st Hall along the Movie Path. Now another thing to clarify is we have a movie and book path for Moria so it appeases to both parties.

For Moria Book references please refer to this thread: Moria Book Lore
To refer to the movie scene involving the 21st Hall please look at these two videos:
and

The movie hall was planned in its basic form by Despot. Patrick (current leader of Moria) gave the okay to Napoleon who was given the 21st hall by Patrick to start work. So Napoleon began, however it has raised a few eye brows so I am creating this thread to discuss. The hall will still be Nap's and if we can't make a decision through a civil discussion, I will :D.
 

Eriol_Eandur

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#2
I have no concerns about the movie version 21st hall. I'm deeply impressed by the work you all are doing in Moria.

But my affection is with the books. I am at MCME because I wish to see this great creation of Tolkien he described with so many details with my own eyes. I'm ok with places like Isengard and Minas Tirith and I agree with aiming to please as many people as possible. But the most crucial locations like Moria, Cirith Ungol and others (usually they are not the most iconic places in the movies) I so much wish to see them with all the splendid details from the books.

For Moria I believe @Despot666's and @Finrod_Amandil's plan to have both movie and book version is just great. As everything is underground there is no conflict between them and the only downside is that it is more work. Are you frightened of more work? :p
I'm completely ok with putting priority on the movie path (I can wait some more years), but please keep the plan for the book path.

Thanks!
Eriol
 
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BWOT

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#3
We are not altering from the plan that Desp and Fin made, as you will see from a coming thread soon. However, I think the concern was that Napoleon's interpretation was not like the Movie enough. I do have a plan though that can appease everyone. Nap's floor and pillar designer can be used for the border of the entire hall (I hope it is the same shape and size as we have it planned), the middle parts can be more basic like actually shown in the movie, stone, basic however surprisingly in the scene there is a green hue to the stone but idk. The walls, I think for the side of the hall not with the Chamber of Mazarbul, Nap's aren't bad and for the side with, it should be more grey and more monotone design. Maybe to give a more community aspect to everything, to have the chamber a competition (following the planning we have) and some of the entrances to other halls. Kind of like the 2nd hall when their is a doorway the wall has a unique design and we can even have that as a community effort. I currently count 19 doorways, so that with the chamber being a contest that should have a lot of community uniqueness in it.
 

Slowlex_

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#4
I personally think that we should make it more, like we did it in MT for example. That means a mix of both... movie and book. But this is hard to do in moria. Though I think that the planning is great, how it is at the moment, because of the point that the 21st hall was on the left side in the movies and in the book on the right side. Tolkien also never said what is supossed to be on the other two ways, did he? I think that this is a good compromise for all the fans, although I personally would prefer a mix.

I think that our 21st hall is too green for the movie adaption and the ground doesn't look the same as in this video that BWOT showed us in his post.

At least I think, that our people that worked on the movie adaption made a great job :D
 

Eriol_Eandur

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#5
The movie and film paths split up long before the 21st hall. That's why I really see no problem to make 2 paths. There is no problem with left and right side.
 

Slowlex_

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#6
I discussed about this with a few members of mcme but we thought that moria is gonna be like in the movies to the 21st hall and then we will continue with the book stuff and I also heard that we would make the book way through moria, but we would make it look like in the movies. I think, that there will be people that will be confused because there are two balin's tombs and all that stuff. At least I would still like to know if there was anything about the other 2 ways of moria there
 

Eriol_Eandur

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#7
I think, that there will be people that will be confused because there are two balin's tombs and all that stuff.
I don't see how a second (book) path would confuse people who just have a quick look at the movie version. It will be hard to find without looking for it. And in the rare case someone is stumbling over it by accident it will be a good occasion to talk to a Guide.
At least I would still like to know if there was anything about the other 2 ways of moria there
I don't get what you mean here. Other two exits of 21st hall? Gandalf is saying a bit about the general layout, but no details:
Fellowship of the Ring - The Bridge of Khazad-dûm said:
'Back to the hall,' answered Gandalf. 'But our visit to this room has not been in vain. I now know where we are. This must be, as Gimli says, the Chamber of Mazarbul; and the hall must be the twenty-first of the North-end. Therefore we should leave by the eastern arch of the hall, and bear right and south, and go downwards. The Twenty-first Hall should be on the Seventh Level, that is six above the level of the Gates.
 

Slowlex_

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#8
What I wanted to say is if there is any discribtion of Tolkien in something like an interview or something like a moria plan.
 

Eriol_Eandur

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#9
Well, the path of the Fellowship is described with many details in LotR, but I've never heared about additional layouts by Tolkien.
 

BWOT

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#10
It has come to my attention that nothing has actually been brought up on the design of this hall. Lots of people seemed like it was important in-game so please take the opportunity to say something now.
 

Slowlex_

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#11
I told you that i think that the floor looks weird and that it's generally a bit too green. I saw pictures of how the hall would look without the darkness and it wasn't made with this green
 

BWOT

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#12
Yes, ik you did but there are many others who raised concern but who have not spoken in this thread
 

thomasd18

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#13
Currently I dont think the 21st Hall is as good as it could be, compared to the 2nd Hall its nothing special and they should really be on the same level of building as they are the 2 most important halls. Personally I would remove the green as I dont think it fits in very well and I would maybe go for a more stone based wall murals. Also the Chamber of Mazarbul seems really small compared to what it looks in the movie. I think it needs to be wider.
 

BWOT

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#14
Okay thanks for your input, if there is similar opinion on this then I will make a vote and we can decide on each point individually. Also I personally think that afterwards a public plan should be made, just so everyone knows what is going on. @Napoleon0605 you can already start on that, once finished please post in this thread.
 

Indorilian

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#15
There’s a thing called digital color grading that was done over pretty much every scene in the movies. The stone of the hall isn’t greyish green, there’s basically just a greyish green filter placed over the scene. Same reason why hobbiton is so green that it looks almost unnatural and too perfect, which is how they wanted it portrayed.
 

didi45

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#16
From what I understood from many people, the wall to them was "the big deal" and they have not spoken, the main complaints came regarding the walls.
 

Slowlex_

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#17
There’s a thing called digital color grading that was done over pretty much every scene in the movies. The stone of the hall isn’t greyish green, there’s basically just a greyish green filter placed over the scene. Same reason why hobbiton is so green that it looks almost unnatural and too perfect, which is how they wanted it portrayed.
yes this is true but when you look at the scenes from the movies you could also see that there is this green color because of the darkness and not because of the pillars... I think that the best example why it isn't a green color is that the top part that is green on mcme has the same dark color that you can see everywhere else too. but when you look at the scene where gandalf and co are at the middle of all these orcs... the piller is still in a normal grey color and not in this green color.
 

Slowlex_

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#18
tbh i think that the stone of the movie scene is like the main part of our pillar but it has these small majestic line like the erebor.
 

BWOT

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#19
We will see what @Napoleon0605 comes up with in regards to a plan which takes these points into account. If a plan isn't made soon, I will or a Moria Project leader will come up with a compromise plan!