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Important About the sudden change of Head Designer, the discovered ac/mcme merge idea

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CEFKILLA96

Hardcore MCME-er
Indo pretty much summed up this entire thing. It's pretty much over and I think people are pretty bored of this now. This thread had some interesting discussion but a huge amount of it has just been childish name-calling and uncalled for insults. I see myself on the outside of both servers now, as I'm past the "caring about minecraft stuff" and now I just care about doing things I want to do like play Rocket League religiously and end up having to rush assignments the day before they're due. I understand all the people saying that a merge would be a good idea, but I also understand all the issues with it and I agree with each side on different points. The issue seems to be that some people don't want to actually have a conversation and just want to "chat shit" and insult not only Fornad but the server he created. At the end of the day ArdaCraft and MCME are two different projects and for now it will remain that way. I think the projects have different goals but I could see a merge happening at some point as long as it was mutually beneficial to both sides.

Just to finish this ramble off, I find it funny how ridiculously over-the-top some members of staff in particular are taking this. Comparing it to the KGB...really. And then you have Fire preaching like some sort of mental dictator how this is "OUR SERVER, OUR BUILDS" and all this rubbish, and putting things in bold so you know it is important. Jeez, It's just sad. If you want to talk seriously about it and you have an issue just say it. I can't be arsed to be formal and take my time writing a long response because it takes to long and I would rather continue sitting here on my arse watching some Milo vids and playing a cheeky bit of Fifa. The cringe is real in this thread but tbh I don't blame anyone because it's something you're passionate about, but just think a little bit.

So keep calm, and carry on MCME. I'll be on bi-weekly to talk about my increasing depression thanks to the uselessness of the great Arsene Wenger and you guys can continue on building cool shit that I can look at and say "this looks good, glad I wasn't here to ruin it", how does that sound? K thanks bye.

ps: I am really bad at writing and I'm dyslexic as hell so this post probably makes no sense.
 

Indorilian

Hardcore MCME-er
Do you think you're the only person who cares about the server? If I didn't care I wouldn't be checking the forums all the time. I'm sorry I have a life to live, but I just don't have endless time to devote to the server. And after everything I've read today and after speaking with the people over on ArdaCraft, it's honestly the people like you who are a big part of the issue. Lets start, shall we?

I want to find out what fornads intentions truly are, because i do not belive the base value of what he has said so far, looking at it from a positive perspective.
Are you serious? Seriously serious? Do you have a personal vendetta against fornad or something? He's not some slippery snake going around trying to decieve people into doing what he wants. He's a person. A person with the same goal as you. Just because a few people he plays with didn't leave this server on the best of terms doesn't mean they're out to get you and destroy everything you love and hold dear. Do you think people like Fresh, or Dags, or Glov, people who were here loooong before you want to destroy something you helped build, and that they helped build in the past? I seriously don't think so, and you're blind if you can't see that. They're trying to build middle-earth, just like you, and just because they arent doing it WITH you, doesn't make them you're enemies, and it doesn't make them "traitors".

I dont recall one time when someone asked you in a comment section about ardacraft. you would just come in and say something along the lines of, "hey guys me and some friends have been doing another cool middle earth." and dont get me started on youtube, you diddnt even look at your own bagend before talking about how you have improved on mcme's server.
I literally took 15 minutes out of my night for this. I looked through a good majority of the videos on the offical MCME youtube, and found NOTHING backing up your claims of shit talking on Fornads part. Maybe it's different on Reddit, but I don't have time for that shit. Maybe another day. If you intend to make claims like this in the future, and least back it up with links or pictures of something, cus right now it looks like you're pulling stuff out of your ass in order to make a point.


Now, onto my opinion on the whole "merger" deal. It it wrong that Fornad and Finrod were having a conversation about a possible merger or whatever in their own free time? No, of course not, they can talk about whatever they want whenever they want. Do I think, however, that Finrod should have at least told Q that they were discussing this possible idea? Well yeah, it's technically Q's "property" they were discussing the future of so of course he should have been involved. But you don't give your boss a half assed presentation. They know you're setting up a presentation, but you don't show it to them when its in the early stages and barely an idea on paper, you show it to them once its done and all the ideas are clear and concise.
Do I think that a merger is possible? Yeah anything is possible, but I don't think it's possible at this point. There's too many people here attached to the current map, and everything they helped build. It's understandable. But the main issue I see is the people themselves, not the builds. After going on AC's teamspeak for a bit earlier, NO ONE I talked to had any ill will towards this server or anyone currently on it, for the most part. It's only people on here, people like Kisos and Fire, who are being toxic towards Fornad and the rest of that crew, and it's really sad to see this happen when theres no need for hostility between everyone. I seriously think everyone needs to take a step back and realize, at the end of the day, this is only a game, and there's no need to get upset over a video game. Except for dark souls, thats the exception.


TLDR: This merger probably isn't going to happen and people need to stop acting like children and realize this is a video game.
 

Fornad

Hardcore MCME-er
The past few days of dealing with attacks against me and my community (I have been called manipulative, desperate, a traitor, a liar, and compared to the KGB) have drained me of any desire to ever attempt to work or co-operate with MCME ever again. I'm a human being and can only tolerate so much personal abuse.

As a result I will be ceasing any and all communication with MCME staff (other than Finrod, whom I consider a friend). This is the worst possible outcome but given the attitudes that have been demonstrated I see no other choice.

I will now be logging out of this account for the last time. For those of you who have had any sympathy for what Finrod and I were trying to do - end this conflict - the saddest thing is that some will see my departure as a victory. Reflect on that.

Goodbye, guys.
 

Kisos

Hardcore MCME-er
Are you serious? Seriously serious? Do you have a personal vendetta against fornad or something? He's not some slippery snake going around trying to decieve people into doing what he wants.
From what i have personally seen so far, the negative has outweighed the positive. Its an opinion that can is subject to change. So yes i am serious. For the moment i dont believe him one way or the other, if its true or not, but should be found out, in some way other than some words on a computer screen. Just want to find out the truth. And check out milkthemooses youtube channel. Also if you think im blaming you for not coming on the server, that's not anything im talking about. On another note, first time ive been called toxic.
 

DynoDaring

Hardcore MCME-er
Donor
Commoner
Ok Firstly I will apologize in advance here and now, this may get long but as an admin a response is I think warranted. So if you need a drink or bathroom break do so now.

Recently my father-in-law passed away when this whole merger came out. I tell you this not for any sympathies or condolences but as a reminder of how I think of MCME/AC.

Obviously since MCME's inception back in 2010 an International group of like-minded people came together for a simple goal. Build Middle Earth in minecraft to the best of our abilities. These individuals gathered for hours, days, months, even years with their sights set on building a world and getting together with the friends they've made both in game or through Ventrilo/Teamspeak. The one thing in common over the past 6 years to me is Community which to my point of view is so close to being considered a family wherein come agreements and disagreements, some of which can alienate people like any sibling rivalry. As such an international member base of opinions, ideas, and passion for the works of Tolkien will definitely vary. Passion for each respective project is understandable, and players passion can come out different ways whether through calm deliberation or blunt statements. I have always respected both types of players until it falls under harrassment, deviousness or slanderous views at which time they cross lines of civility really.

So on to some points about details.

It's no surprise this conflict has been going on for some time and honestly every time it re-surfaces I cringe and think "oh god here we go again" or how I miss the simpler times when it was just dealing with griefers and profanity infractions
Personally I have not frequented the Ardacraft for two main reasons. I will confess here that after their Bree was completed I logged on with my son's account to look around, simply to explore and avoid unnecessary questions or comments/views, essentially trying to view unbiased. (but I digress...)
The first reason is the launcher which for my poor old PC and laptop takes about 8-10 minutes to get through before I'm actually on the server, which (perhaps wrongly) I simply don't have much patience for. Secondly, is an issue I have with the "look" of the resourcepack. I personally think of it as Middle Earth as viewed Gotham style. I'm sure you all know what I mean. Every time Gotham is shown through movies/videos etc. it's dark, or gothic and gloomy which is why I dislike the movie imagery come on an entire city of it? Now is the MCME shire too bright a green? perhaps but I always envisioned hobbits at one with nature ie. "a well ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt" so I can accept that.
Regarding the members who felt the need to leave due to "book" lore accuracy. I respect the decision that they made to leave and their devotion to Tolkien's works. One of the difficulties I have with the argument of accuracy is irregardless of book descriptions and details, books are not a direct visual medium like movies and no I'm not saying PJ's versions is what I envisioned to the letter exactly either. By that, I mean that no matter what description Tolkien writes the reader interprets it with their own imagination and to some extent based through real life experiences. There will always be minor differences between 2, 10, or even 100 people on what they think places look like to the block by block. In this only through communications and sometimes compromises can things be achieved.

In regards to the way this came out in the open... I put down to poor judgement or decisions. Could it have been handled better? of course but as such it has "forced" things out into the light of day. Also as admin and Head of Enforcement I will say that I do not condone the "hostile" comments put forward by many of our staff/players. I can certainly understand frustrations when one considers how much of ones life goes into their work, but the entire lack of diplomacy truly disappoints me. From a more personal view I may not have been Artist or a build mod but the time I've put on this server is no less than any other imo. Heck as Guide I spent months revamping my own small part of the "shire" terrain by hand because Ryan wanted it better or when Fawkes/Smtg would let me fly and fix rohan terrain holes. I don't regret that work even tho it's no longer relevant.

Personally I'm neither for nor against it and any decision moving forward must take time and careful calm/diplomatic deiberation. In my honest opinion, MCME has been through any number of drastic changes and survived relatively unscathed. Let's put this in perspective. Can MCME carry on like it is? sure it can. When you consider from Oct. 2010 to Aug. 2013 (when the map was actually implemented) we're talking 3 years (give or take a month or so) to get to be ready for Gondor to start. Yes I can hear the arguments now... building/work stopped in April after announcing the new map, but Osgiliath actually started on freebuild as a "Build Day" before the release and Eriador/Rohan had so much derp terrain of holes OB's would fall into and have to /spawn out, from Aug. 2013 to May 2016 (approximately the same amount of time) Gondor's nearing completion.
Let's be entirely honest with ourselves, would ANY of us still be playing minecraft if it wasn't for "Middle Earth"? I personally don't look at any mc updates as what will that mean for survival but rather what will it improve or change for the server. Any merger that may or may not happen isn't going to be instantaneous, or without conflict. There will be those who leave or move on to other things no matter what happens. Neither of us can change that.

[In Closing...
I will state here and now (perhaps I'm going out on a limb but...) Historically MCME's take on our members causing issues on another server (specifically Ardacraft) is up to Ardacraft to deal with as they see fit and MCME's argument was always well it didn't happen on our server so let it pass. This approach ends now. It is naive to allow our members to soil our reputation on someone else's server with no true repercussions to follow on MCME and I would like to think Fornad "and Ardacraft in general" follow a similar path but their rules are their own and I have no control over that. I request actions on all MCME's medium's irregardless of server affiliation, or position abide by our Rules and ToS. To be entirely honest I've had it with the whole conflict and it's the one aspect of taking over as Head Enforcer when Iru resigned that dreaded but knew would continue to occur.

Ok enuff said... I can guarantee it took me longer to write this thing than for any person to read.
 
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DynoDaring

Hardcore MCME-er
Donor
Commoner
I will add one tiny addition here that many might have noticed... I did not want to specifically reference anything from the "controversial document" because to me it only means thoughts or ideas and does not represent any concrete decisions either way.
 

Glov

Hardcore MCME-er
Also I would like to point out that when writing this I checked Ardacraft's dynmap and with the few seconds I was on Glov made the remark "Poor Fin tries to do something reasonable and gets damned by all the staff" also that he doesn't give a f as long as he builds Dale"
Oh yeah totally missed this comment, as i'm far too lazy to read all the posts in this thread. But now that I've read it I guess I feel obligated to respond.

I totally stand behind all of that. Like i said in my previous post I just like building stuff, and atm I just want to build Dale.
As for the Finrod comment, things have calmed down, but yesterday when I hopped on MCME TS the hostility towards Finrod was astounding. For such a reasonable, and kind person, who has done so much for this community, people seemed to be very quick to be aggressive towards him for really no valid reason imo.

But all that is beside the point by now.

P.s: CleganeBowlGetHype
 

pheonixsang

Hardcore MCME-er
We actually have rules that came to be on our server, Dyno, and are available to the public via our forum, that echo that sentiment of being peaceful toward MCME and vice-versa.

I'll paste them down below for those that can't be bothered to go to the forums or find the specific post:

As I'm sure you all know, relations between ArdaCraft and the Minecraft Middle-earth server have been rocky in the past. Despite my best intentions, there has been shit-slinging on both sides and a constant state of 'rivalry' between the two servers.

This has again flared up in the last few days. Without naming names, one or more of our players has been attempting to 'recruit' players from MCME to come to ArdaCraft, and has been spamming their minigame plugin doc with insults and references to our server being better than theirs. Naturally, the fallout from this has hit me, and for what feels like the twentieth time I've had to explain to Finrod (the project leader on MCME) in a long PM that these actions are not representative of our player base as a whole or of ArdaCraft itself. To whomever is doing this, please understand that your actions are not without consequence and negatively affect me.

Quite frankly, I'm fucking tired of this bullshit. Part of the reason I left MCME in the first place was the continual, never-ending drama that seemed to characterize the community, and I don't want to see this carried over to here.

In conclusion:

a) Fucking grow up. Starting drama serves no purpose and negatively affects others.

b) Believe it or not, most players on MCME will find out about ArdaCraft themselves and will be able to make their own decision about joining us or not. Attempting to notify and convince them casts us in a negative light.

c) Stop giving a shit about MCME. Rise above them by producing high quality builds, not slinging anonymous insults. The sooner we start seeing ourselves as a separate and independent server rather than MCME's rebellious child, the better.


Now obviously "C" was written before the merge idea was thought over by Fornad and Finrod.

Point being, from that date on anyone on our server that tries to start up stuff; whether it be on the forums, server itself, teamspeak, skype chats, steam chats, etc. Anyone found out trying to do stuff along those lines are dealt with. Normally that means a demotion, a talking to, or in extreme instances, a ban.

I can say from personal knowledge that I know at least one person has been banned from ArdaCraft permanently because they always came over to MCME and tried to start up drama, despite being reminded repeatedly to stop doing so.

I'm not attempting to show myself off as a Representative or Official from ArdaCraft, because I'm not, in fact I'm rarely on at all due to 70 hour work weeks. But I can say that we as a server don't just sit around and think up ways to 'better' or 'one-up' MCME. If anyone logged into teamspeak or our server, you would be surprised actually how little MCME is mentioned at all. There might be one discussion or two a month where MCME is brought up and it is normally along the lines of:

"Hey guys, did you see the new MCME times / reddit post / youtube video?"
"No? Link?.........kk. 10/10 Dankeness bro. Wanna help me finish adding shrubbery to this stream I'm working on?"

Most of our members have pretty much moved on from MCME, a couple still come on every now and then, they bounce between the two. The news of a merger at first was a little eye-opening to me, and quite frankly I was against it. Fornad sent out a message to all of our members though to come into teamspeak so he could explain things a little better if anyone had any questions about it. We talked for well over an hour, and after hearing Fornad and Finrods idea (I'm going to call it that because that is what it was, an idea) of a merger sounded quite nice to be honest.

It looks now though that the merger will not be taking place.

"Well, here, at last, on the shores of the sea comes the end of our Fellowship in Middle-Earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil."
 

DynoDaring

Hardcore MCME-er
Donor
Commoner
Yes phe I am fully aware of the post you quoted having read it very shortly after it was put there. I did not refer to it as it is Fornad's wishes for the actions of his members and not rules per se. I was referring to actions taken based on the following below:
The Golden Rule
Don't act in a way that is detrimental towards the server - This includes, but is not limited to, acts of: harassment, griefing and trolling. The interpretation of this rule is at the discretion of ArdaCraft's moderators.
 
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q220

Eru Iluvatar
Staff member
Donor
Okay I went through this thread and am deleting all the offtopic stuff that doesn't contribute to this issue at all.

The point about the thread was to inform you what the prelude was for the sudden change of Head Designer. At the same time we could take it as a chance to publicly debate about the idea itself. Judging from some of the severe reactions on our part, I don't think it turned out as constructive as I expected. Personally I don't see the reason why there is so much bad blood that even prevents people from having a normal - though be it a delicate - conversation.

I'll archive the thread soon, since at the end it derailed really quick from actually discussing the issue to more personal attacks.
 
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