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Announcement on the Recent Events on MCME

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by yomama629, May 1, 2017.

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  1. yomama629

    yomama629 Yellow flower puncher
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    To all MCME members old and new,

    Last week @DynoDaring announced that there would be a forthcoming announcement regarding the recent bans. We waited patiently for this to happen, but as of [insert time and date here] no such announcement has been posted. I have thus decided to post my own announcement, which has been reviewed by several other players who have been affected by this. In this announcement I will describe the reasoning behind the bans of members in the last two weeks and why we take exception to the unprofessional behavior of several Enforcers and their unfair treatment of several members of this community.

    As member @Fireinferno put it, “It’s almost like it’s a complex topic that needs to be handled carefully.” The treatment of these members was not handled carefully, with one member’s forum account being completely deleted, and therein lies the major flaw within the hypocritical enforcement team.

    @Glov (Former Build Staff) was banned by enforcer @Delmana after a Twitter account mockingly satirizing his commoner application (labeling him a communist and using Trump-inspired tweets, nothing really offensive in there) was discovered. Although he had nothing to do with the account and @Finrod_Amandil acknowledged that Glov was innocent of the offenses that led to the ban, he refused to take action,saying that “maybe his ban was for the best”. I can only describe this as the most asinine decision I’ve ever seen from the MCME staff. Artist @Commandotrigger was banned after enforcer @SmaugJuice decided that a joke he made about another server in-game was worthy of a straight ban rather than a warning or an Oathbreaker rank.

    In order to support them, several members created a private Discord channel to discuss the issue and to satirize the enforcement team; in particular @Delmana, who has been abusing his power ever since his appointment. This is when I was invited into the Discord channel after a prolonged absence from the game. From this Discord channel, I learned of the bans and laughed at the jokes made about the antagonists linked to these unfair bans. At some point, pictures from @Delmana’s Facebook account which were photoshopped to mock him were posted (some of which went too far and were subsequently deleted, I might add), which we all got a good laugh out of. We never shared these pictures outside of our private Discord and we never intended for them to harm anyone in real life. We also made jokes about downloading the map, but we obviously had no intention of doing so.

    However, @KinkySauron, who @kisos invited to this chat, was either pressured into revealing what we were discussing or decided to do so willingly to curry favor with the enforcement team (since he is currently applying for guide). As a result, Delmana banned @kisos, @Eaglz, and I for these conversations. We were banned for making jokes on a private Discord server completely outside of MCME server chat, Discord channels, forums, or subreddit. One of the reasons given was downloading the map, which we obviously did not do and had no intention of doing, and the other reason was making photoshops of public photos of an MCME member. To that second reason, there was no evidence that any of us three (@Eaglz, @kisos, and @yomama629) had made these pictures--and the pictures in question were not private, but posted publicly on a Facebook account on the internet. Enforcer @Delmana went even further with his childish behavior, from threatening legal action towards us for “almost getting him fired” from his police department (an obvious lie, since we never shared those photos outside of our private chat and he later said in-game that he had left his job, and is training to join the military) to calling @ooitsbirdo a “piece of s**t” in PM’s for supporting us-http://i.imgur.com/Qpzua1u.png.
    When jokingly asked later about the bannings he told a member toshut [his] f*****g mouth”- http://tinyurl.com/kqf8pxy. This is clearly not the professional attitude” that so often is quoted when enforcers are describing how players should function on the server.

    These sudden bans outraged several members of the MCME community when they discovered the reasoning behind them. Of the designers, @_Luk and @Beathaven have posted their resignations, even though only Luk was mentioned as doing so on the last Times (because Beat never posted his resignation on the public forums and I guess the enforcers thought they could get away with not divulging this information to the community). Artists @Toey_ and @HeartseekerDK publicly posted their resignations for the same reasons. Foreman @ooitsbirdo posted his resignation publicly as a result of this fiasco. Names will not be divulged, but I can tell you for a fact several other designers/artists are seriously considering resigning over the recent events.

    It goes without saying that the confidence and trust we once had in MCME’s enforcement team to carry out the rules fairly and in good judgment is entirely gone. We also have lost friendships with members who we thought had respect for us but chose the side of the server’s leadership over us, due to what we believe is a toxic culture which revolves around hierarchy and promotion. We also want to denounce the disgusting tactics of certain Enforcers, who have tried to co-opt several members into staying and denouncing us in exchange for ranks. In the case of @Delmana, we do not see how he can remain Enforcer despite his transgressions of the code of conduct that his rank commands. The fact that he was re-promoted to this rank, despite being removed from it for similar behavior several years ago, and proceeded to repeat this behavior, should make this an open-and-shut case for his demotion, as it exemplifies his “above the law” attitude. In the case of other Enforcers, we believe it would restore confidence in the community for them to have an honest discussion in a public forum about their role and how they judge players’ behavior, as well as to pledge to keep discussions outside of MCME channels outside of their sphere of enforcement.

    Most of the players affected by this are leaving the server for good, no matter the outcome of the current proceedings. The purpose of this announcement is to warn the MCME community that several Enforcers are not looking out for the best interests of everyone, but are rather using their privileges to rule the server through fear and with complete disregard for the ToS or for members who have contributed time and money to the server. To this point, I would like to mention @NicTheFifth, @Atlantispy, @Wheellee (who built the Citadel of Minas Tirith), and @Volcrest, all banned without regard for what they contributed to this community. The system of pick and choose banning cannot continue.

    On the other hand the enforcer team has contributed very little to the builds of the server, yet have complete power over all build ranks, except Head Designer. The current power structure is flawed, with those on a server dedicated to BUILDING Middle-Earth, on the lower tiers, and those who do not BUILD on the top tier of power. There needs to be reform among the ranks, if the server truly wishes to make all ranks equal, like @Finrod_Amandil always says they are; because as it stands, seasoned builders, sixof which have easily gone over the 100 days mark for time contributing on the server, are banned, while the “enforcement” team, which prefers to operate in complete secrecy, comes away relatively unscathed.

    I’d also like to address another issue, which is the current state of Dol Amroth and its design decisions. While this has very little to do with the reasons why its project lead, @Eaglz24, was banned, the decisions made in the aftermath of his banning have set the stage for a terrifying precedent with how bans and projects are handled. It brings me absolute disgust to know that not even 48 hours after @Eaglz was banned, there were already changes being made to Dol Amroth’s style, change in hands, and people clamoring to head the project. Anyone who saw any benefit from @Eaglz being removed as project lead and anyone who had disagreements with design direction under his leadership already had their minds made up that changes would be implemented as soon as he was removed. This is unacceptable and implicates the associated parties of something far more corrupt than was possibly intended. It is a terrible example to the community as to what value was placed in @Eaglz’s leadership and design direction. It goes without saying that no respect was shown to him.

    Finally, we want to take exception to the scapegoating and the slander towards another server which is similar to MCME and has been used as an excuse by the Heads of this server for recent events. It was divulged to us by a person who is in contact with the Heads (who I will keep anonymous here) that they were blaming said server for “planting the seed” of dissent in us and for trying to recruit designers and other members to their community, accusations that are entirely baseless and false. What made MCME what it is today, through just shy of 6 years, is the work of hundreds-if not thousands-of builders (not enforcers) who have worked countless hours digging streams, grassing the plains of Rohan, building houses across Eriador, Gondor, Rohan, and everywhere else. By banning them and pushing them away, the progress slows, and staff members get burned out and don't believe in what they’re working on anymore. If MCME drives its members away by treating them like this, it is the fault of MCME and not of other servers.


    Good luck and god speed, MCMEmers.

    Yomama629, on the behalf of #buildersunited

    #FreetheMemes
     
  2. MaDIIReD

    MaDIIReD Enforcer
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    To all MCME member new and old,

    I'm going to leave this thread up because removing it will only make things worse imo.

    I just want to preface this by saying this is me talking, and my personal position. I am not speaking on behalf of the Enforcer team and certainly not our admins/the server in general. I unfortunately wasn't present when all this went down and have only been back since Friday, and am not as informed as I would like to be in every aspect. On top of that until an official announcement is made I can't make too many statements regarding this so I won't be going into why people were banned, or why appeals were denied.

    I don't like this, and I had not seen this yet. Calling someone dictatorial and accusing them of going on a power trip is not very productive (I for example dismiss most accusations when people call others dictatorial facists). I don't know why y'all decided to keep these images to yourself if you had an issue with the way Delmana was treating you. You could have shown these images to Dyno, or even another Enforcer.

    I don't know what else was said in those conversation but regardless of what was said I do not think Delmana should have reacted in this way. We will discuss this.

    None of the other enforcers were directly involved in writing the times, this was all me. I didn't mention Beat's resignation in the times because as far as I am concerned he has not resigned. I apologise to Beat if he wants his words kept out of the public eye, but in his post he stated he was not sure wether he wants to be affiliated as a staff member with the tighter and tighter control of server enforcement. Key words being: not sure.

    Now I don't know what you expect, but I think it is only decent to announce people's resignation when they actually resign, not when they're contemplating wether or not they should...

    What? Who, and what ranks?

    I can not make this pledge whatsoever. There are definitely cases (and I'm not saying or denying this is one of them) where I will ban someone for actions they take outside of MCME channels. If fore example someone goes out of their way to bully someone, but does it exclusively on skype, steam, discord etc. that is not acceptable to me and I will ban them from the server. (this very rarely happens though)

    I don't disregard the ToS, if others do that is certainly an issue. I do however try to disregard members who have contributed time and money to the server. Being on the server for a long time should not warrant preferential treatment.

    All banned without regard for what they contributed to this community.

    Your welcome.

    That is what enforcing the rules is about, we're all supposed to be equal before the rules. That is also what you're advocating for with holding other enforcers accountable isn't it. Wether someone is brand new to the server, or has just built a masterpiece, they should get the same punishment for the same offence. If anything punishment is usually more lenient for long time members, which I consider a bad thing.

    This is simply false. Enforcers have no power over other ranks unless someone is going crazy with voxel and griefing everything. I can't think of a single time where another staffmember has been banned without consulting either the head designer or the head enforcer. In fact, I wouldn't demote/ban a Foreman or Guide without consulting Fin or Dyno if it wasn't necessary to ban/demote immediately.

    For example with Kisk: I asked him to remove his island summer resort easter egg, and he told me that he was done with it and Thijs could fix it if he didn't like it. I didn't demote him for building easter eggs, or completely ignoring me when I asked him to follow the rules. I simply took it to Finrod and Dyno because they decide what happens when staff members do something wrong.

    Also to say that all Enforcers have contributed very little to the builds of the server is pretty silly. At least know what you're talking about before you say something.

    This is more of the same. Enforcers don't just ban or demote designers as they please. I also find it interesting that you call for complete equality and then go on to say that those who build more should be treated better than those who don't.

    This is a build mod issue, not really much for me to comment on here.

    Well then... there's that.
     
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  3. RubenPieterMark

    RubenPieterMark Dirt Conaisseur
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    Now firstly I'd like to thank you for clearing up some things and secondly to say that I only represent my own opinion. Though if we should know the full story, we should see the 'memes' too. Also some of the banned players have been banned before and it's not most surprising that when the first thing they do is offending the enforcers, they'll get banned.
    Again I'm not representing anybody's opinion but my own; I understand this dicision. Glov wasn't contributing anything good to MCME, but it seemed he was only looking trouble. I wonder why would he want to be unbanned? To come and build Moria? I don't think so.
    Now I haven't been that active on the server lately, but every time I did come online, Commando got warned for language or other stuff. Was it even a surprise to anybody that he would get banned sooner or later?
    Have you tried contacting the head enforcer, I'm sure that would support your friends more than satirising people.
    You're just ridiculing the staff of community. The most important rule is use common sense; are you surprised you were banned for this?
    Now you've cleared up a lot of things, but you haven't told me Why they were banned. Having contributed a lot in the past does not give you a free ticket against getting banned. I only know why Nic was banned and that was for literally going crazy spamming chat because he didn't get foreman. He also asked enforcers in chat to get banned.
    If you think the enforcement team hasn't contributed much to the server, you're very wrong, no matter how you reason it. Madred has been a builder for many years and he built for example Ost-In-Edhil, Smaug has been the most active guide and artist for 2 years, Otho has been designer for a long time, having built Linhir, Calembel and led Anfalas for a while. Dyno hasn't been active as builder but I think hasn't contributed less nonetheless. Former enforcer Kulmo still has the record of time being online on the server; about 250 days. Imagine what would happen if you get more power by just being an active builder, do you really think MCME would be a better server if Eaglz and Glov were head enforcer? People get enforcer when they are trusted by the head enforcer. We don't have the right of most active builders. I do believe promoting Delmana wasn't a good choice, I've seen him being rude to new members and saying enforcer-unworthy things.
    ^
    Why are friendships lost when someone disagrees with you? I heavily disagree with you on this matter mama, but you're nutting early here. The toxic culture that revolves around hierarchy and promotion: if you're referring to my application of foreman, I really am no longer interested in that or even my artist rank. I'm just saying what I seem is right instead of blindly agreeing what my friend says.
    Lastly I'd like to remind that this is just a minecraft server building a fictional world. I don't see why some people want to offend so personally just for this.
     
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  4. Tyranystrasz

    Tyranystrasz Designer
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    Tbh this situation got handled like any political decision in my country... overwhelmingly bad
     
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  5. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    The main flaw of many with what @yomama629 has said here is that it doesn't take the reasoning for the bans from the enforcement making it seem like the bans are unjust when, in fact they are fully justifiable. It is also blatant that you don't understand how power structures must work, if you have the builders hold the most power no one would follow the rules because the enforcement would not have the ability to punish them for their wrong doing. You also ask for the rules to be enforced with bias for those who have spent days working on server, this idea would destroy the server by making it so that if you build all the time you can get away with any violations of the ToS which may work out for some members but it would also mean that the chat could be filled with remarks like those made by @Commandotrigger, which would be less than helpful and would make the server a less enjoyable place. You should also take in to consideration the game we build on, while the vast majority of players are older than the games target audience some are not and the actions of the group on the private discord sever would be down right illegal. While you may see you bans as unjust, you must imagine what it would be like if the situation was the other way round and you found out that someone was doing this to you. How would you want it to be dealt with?

    I am not saying the situation was well handled, just that your big announcement has some pretty big flaws and that you should probably not have just gone to people involved for their opinions, you should probably also state what your aims are for the announcement, if you intend to give the whole story you need the enforcement's side as well, if you want to get more people to side with you on this matter rather than the totally justified enforcement team good luck and finally if you think this will get us all to join The Other Server, you've no chance. Sorry.

    ~TI
     
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  6. KinkySauron

    KinkySauron Developer
    Developer

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    since this is obviously a huge issue in both the eyes of those banned, the enforcers, and the community as a whole, I'd like to propose that we setup a date & time for us to create a group Voice Chat and have a well structured, professional conversation regarding all the bs that's gone down recently. It's honestly of no benefit to the situation for anyone to post their opinions on this thread, because everyone's mind is locked on their own opinion. With that said, I believe that setting up said group chat with all the banned players, current staff members, and any interested member of the community, would help us have a productive and beneficial conversational meeting.

    #mashedpotatoes
     
  7. Commandotrigger

    Commandotrigger Aspiring Commoner

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    You know what, I've been staying pretty quiet amongst all this, but I've seen some slander being thrown around here about moi and I just couldn't resist.


    ~ @MaDIIReD ~​
    I love how you just conveniently left out the Artist rank from your list there m9. Very cunning.
    You say you wouldn't demote a Guide without consulting Fin or Dyno first, but correct me if I'm wrong in saying that Artist and Guide are on the same level in terms of rank hierarchy. You talk about being against preferential treatment but is the on-the-spot banning of Artists without confirmation an exception to your morals?

    I understand that I was banned by Smaug and not you personally MaD, but how well do you think it reflects upon the enforcement system when each enforcer interprets the rules differently and doesn't hold the same stance on jurisprudence. By that point, it's pretty much down to just the luck of the draw to decide which Enforcer you get on your case and the resulting outcome. I mean, here's a quote from your boi SmaugJuice himself right before the banhammer fell upon my head: "I think I've had enough of you"
    I'm sorry but the last time I checked, people don't normally get a "straight ban rather than a warning or an Oathbreaker rank" around these parts for just "language or other stuff". Considering that I literally had 1 OB on record over the last 5 years, and 0 bans to speak of, justify this to me. Here, let me clarify this for you a bit further: arda.png
    and that was that. I was given no chance at all to reply to Smaug after his "excuse me?" and I'm quite certain that he didn't go around asking Fin or Dyno for permission in the subsequent half a minute before the Ban Hammer struck.



    ~and last but not least, my boi @TI_020601 ~​
    sorry my dude.png sorry my dude.​
     
  8. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    @Commandotrigger The server isn't only populated by the 6 people who voted in that pole, so idk if we want you back. sry 'boi'.
     
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  9. Olwe

    Olwe Aspiring Commoner

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    Do you seriously not understand why this was a ban?

    Throughout these recent bans here, yours is by far the most logical.
     
  10. Commandotrigger

    Commandotrigger Aspiring Commoner

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    worthy reason for a direct ban?
    no warnings no nothing,
    just the ban hammer?​
     
  11. Olwe

    Olwe Aspiring Commoner

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    Honestly shouldn't require a warning, you said it yourself you've been here for 5 years you clearly know what you're doing :p. If you're going to be stupid enough to say that in public chat, and you've been a member of this server long enough to understand why you SHOULDNT do this, you don't deserve a warning.
     
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  12. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    you know full well that promotion will at minimum get you OB and most likely if you are often breaking the rules a ban, the moral of the story is think before you speak.
     
  13. ooitsbirdo

    ooitsbirdo Yellow flower puncher

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    On the part about other members and their bans I would like to say that @Volcrest was banned for apparently copying a church, in his own world, and I know that he actually didn't, he took it as an example and changed it to make it his own, he based his build on that church. If this is a ban able offense I would like to be banned along with probably countless more builders who have done the same thing to learn and practice the server build styles to maybe become an artist and use these builds in there application.

    This is what I think was ment to be said how some bands are maybe unjust to what they actually deserved.

    Also carrying on with @NicTheFifth ban his ban was just, and I asked for him to be ban so he can sort himself out without harming the server, something that mando will agree with me since I asked him: [​IMG]
    However I was in a channel where i over heared Mandolore say that he denied his app for good reason but prolonged the ban, however the thing that annoyed me is that he was laughing about this as he did not like nic at all, saying a quote that distinctly remember as "looks like we wont be seeing him again" That is just unfair and unjust and not professional in my opinion. This matter should have been settled fairly without bias, and I'm sure that's something you MaD strive for and what all enforcers need to strive for
     
    #13 ooitsbirdo, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  14. ooitsbirdo

    ooitsbirdo Yellow flower puncher

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    does not excuse a perm ban for such little action.
     
  15. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    If someone who has been on the server for 5 years and has been breaking rules constantly of late, surely they would they would know it's not the best idea to promote a rival server.
     
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  16. Eaglz24

    Eaglz24 Dirt Conaisseur
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    I couldn’t agree more.

    I think this misunderstanding came about because yomama a) has been in contact with Beat a lot over the past few days so knows his most recent thoughts and b) doesn’t have access to the staff forum. Beat will have to confirm his resignation himself, of course.

    Feel free to ask @SmaugJuice about him offering to get thomasd17 Designer ‘if he stayed’.

    This is an issue of rightful jurisdiction. By saying “MCME Enforcers have a right to police people’s actions on all channels whether they are MCME or not” you are doing two things:

    1. Extending MCME’s Rules and ToS to apply to any MCME member’s actions anywhere. This is insane, as it gives you jurisdiction over an MCME member’s entire presence on the internet.

    2. Giving yourself fewer tools to actually discover the truth behind any situation (as we saw with ‘Glov’s Twitter’).

    Surely it would be more reasonable to limit yourself to things that actually happen on MCME channels, and allow people to deal with private issues themselves?

    MCME is a creative project, first and foremost. It is a project with assets - its players - and some of those assets are, without question, more valuable than others. Before those most valuable assets are cut away and treated badly, surely it would make sense to have a wider discussion first in which all the facts are considered? I’m not suggesting more lenient treatment for longer-serving members, but rather more thoroughly-considered treatment. Clearly, not having this sort of discussion has clearly been detrimental for MCME as several of its most valuable builders are now never coming back due to the way in which they (and the visions for their projects) were quickly disposed of.

    To add to this, the way in which the rules and environment have become stricter over the years is one of the biggest contributors to this whole situation (as you said Beathaven mentioned). It alienates older members who were able to joke around a few years ago in a way that they could not do now. It’s little wonder that so many old members have left (or are considering leaving) as a result.

    None of the members banned were “going crazy with voxel and griefing everything” so this is a strawman argument. Furthermore (as the original post showed) the reasons for these bans are questionable at best, and so even if Dyno or Finrod were asked for permission it is clear that they didn’t look very deeply into the issues before giving the go-ahead.

    I think yomama mis-wrote there. It should have been written that the Enforcer rank does not lend itself towards contributing towards the builds of the server and yet it is (and always has been) considered one rank below the highest possible - which seems backwards.

    That’s all I can say in response to your post Mad - thanks for letting me know how you see the situation. There are still many issues in the original post left unresolved, and despite what others (who have not been involved in this situation) have said in this thread, the grievances of the former members who have left are both legitimate and warrant a proper response. When can any of you remember the last time so many members left at once? There is a systemic problem here. If no major changes are made to the way in which MCME is run as a response to this, then the administration are burying their heads in the sand and refusing to acknowledge problems which are bleeding the server of its builders.
     
  17. ooitsbirdo

    ooitsbirdo Yellow flower puncher

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    the problem is that you see them as a rival server, i see both servers as 2 servers who are building middleearth in different ways, You guys keep this rivalry idea going by mentioning it and anyone who thinks that ones building quality is better is instantly shunned and looked down upon
     
    #17 ooitsbirdo, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  18. Tyranystrasz

    Tyranystrasz Designer
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    I think we witnessed to wayy worse offences and etc in general chat during this years.
    And most of them weren't even punished. I think sometimes a mute (especially to someone like @Commandotrigger ) when the banter starts is way more effective instead of swinging a banhammer instantly
     
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  19. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    I think it would be beneficial for both parties banned and staff as well as some other members to have a conversation about this, it would make things so much easier.
     
  20. Despot666

    Despot666 Designer
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    Can u guarantee this conversation won't turn into red weeding bloodbath? :)
     
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