• Minecraft Middle Earth is a Minecraft community that recreates the world described by JRR Tolkien and his writings. Everyone can participate in organized events in which we collaborate to create major landmarks, terrain, caves, castles, towns, farms and more.

    To get started, visit The New Player Guide

Finished Annuminas pt2

SKy_the_Thunder

Builds Diagonally
I saw the spikes as some kind of defence at first. Something to prevent a big flying creature from landing inside the city (which obviously would be a bad thing). Could have been against Fell Beasts, could have been against a smaller Dragon - we don't know much about the time Annúminas was used...
 

Portalrules333

Hardcore MCME-er
I saw the spikes as some kind of defence at first. Something to prevent a big flying creature from landing inside the city (which obviously would be a bad thing). Could have been against Fell Beasts, could have been against a smaller Dragon - we don't know much about the time Annúminas was used...
Unless of course, the dragon realizes that he can fly over the spikes....and land onto a grassy area. :p
 

Fireinferno13

Hardcore MCME-er
Since the spikes are going to be removed during the ruining process it doesn't really matter.
But if they were being kept i'd take issue, because they are spammed, and because they make the old capital of Arnor feel like Carn Dum.
I'll consider removing some of them as I get where you are coming from. Maybe run an artist job?
 

Portalrules333

Hardcore MCME-er
Since the spikes are going to be removed during the ruining process it doesn't really matter.
But if they were being kept i'd take issue, because they are spammed, and because they make the old capital of Arnor feel like Carn Dum.
Yeah, I personally like the spikes, as long as I can fly around the city without being skewered by one every 6 blocks........
 

Fireinferno13

Hardcore MCME-er
Please get those last run off houses done!

On another note, we are beginning to move into the ruining phase for Annuminas. Your job, should you choose to accept, is to come up with ruining concepts and designs and post them HERE so we can figure out the best possible outcome and get feedback.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SKy_the_Thunder

Builds Diagonally
Personally I'd say there shouldn't be too much ruining. Annuminas was left due to lack of people, not war, so there were little to no war damages when tey left it. (maybe in the outer areas where no one cared to rebuild it)
All in all stone structures like that tend to stay pretty much undamaged. If you look at Mayan cities or ancient Asian building they're surprisingly intact. Everything that requires wood has decayed by now, so the roofes should mostly be gone, some of the floors too probably. The base structure should mostly have survived though.
Also I'd go for the VERY overgrown look, with trees and stuff growing inside the city. Maybe a few havier damaged houses where a growing tree pushed it aside...
 

Fireinferno13

Hardcore MCME-er
Agreed! Less ruining! Here is Finrod's take on it when I asked:
I would leave most of the stony parts intact and add some greenery; Take Tharbad as comparison: That city was flooded at least once entirely, so you could do the same for buildings close to the water, however the buildings higher up have most likely taken less damage.

If you really want to go for historical accuracy: In 861 T.A. the city was mostly abandoned and from 1974 T.A. completely left, so maybe you can make some houses even a tad more ruined than others due to that difference, but tbh I dont think its worth regarding that too much.

However there were a few Rangers of the North that did still settle in the city, so maybe you can aswell either make very few houses simply fixed (e.g. easy wooden roof attached to old stone fundaments) or a few tents in the city.

About the greenery: Don't make it a jungle, Annúminas is very far up in the north, so rather less overgrown than Tharbad.
Currently I am leading to a design such as this (by @mattlego ). My comments on this style and things I like/disliked:
  • Main walls/pillars are still intact
  • Mossy stone gives overgrown feel
  • Roof collapsed for the most part as its the weakest part
  • Spikes pretty much gone away with!
  • A little too much vegetation probably, I would lean towards 1-3 vines per build
jusYpvuWsJkgz.png


What do people think?
 
Last edited:

Portalrules333

Hardcore MCME-er
Agreed! Less ruining! Here is Finrod's take on it when I asked:


Currently I am leading to a design such as this (by @mattlego ). My comments on this style and things I like/disliked:
  • Main walls/pillars are still intact
  • Mossy stone gives overgrown feel
  • Roof collapsed for the most part as its the weakest part
  • Spikes pretty much gone away with!
  • A little too much vegetation probably, I would lean towards 1-3 vines per build
jusYpvuWsJkgz.png


What do people think?
I love it, just make it a teensy bit more visible like you said and I think it'd work.
 

SKy_the_Thunder

Builds Diagonally
However there were a few Rangers of the North that did still settle in the city, so maybe you can aswell either make very few houses simply fixed (e.g. easy wooden roof attached to old stone fundaments) or a few tents in the city.
I'd mostly go for the farming houses here - they're easier to maintain (because smaller) and close to the fields anyway. Maybe even give them as much life as the small villages around the countryside...
 

Fireinferno13

Hardcore MCME-er
Artists!

You can ruin any build with white wool above it!

This is to set a solid style foundation so that jobs can be done probably starting this weekend!
 

Fornad

Hardcore MCME-er
Thought I'd weigh in with a few thoughts and responses to stuff that's been said above.

All in all stone structures like that tend to stay pretty much undamaged. If you look at Mayan cities or ancient Asian building they're surprisingly intact.
They certainly do not stay undamaged. The pyramids at Chichen Itza are between 800 to 1300 years old mostly, and the examples that you see (i.e. El Castillo) have been excavated and heavily restored. Compare this picture of El Castillo taken in 1892 to one taken a few years ago:

Castillo_Maler.jpg


Chichen_Itza_3.jpg

Chichen Itza was abandoned in around 1250 AD - not under circumstances of war, as far as historians know. So there's about 640 years between it being abandoned and it looking like that first picture. By contrast, Annúminas was abandoned for 2200 years.

But wait, Fornad! I hear you say. Annúminas is under very different climatic conditions to Chichen Itza! Surely it wouldn't have decayed as much?

It is correct to point out that under Annúminas' climatic conditions, stone would weather at a far slower rate. However, let's look at a civilisation similar to Arnor in our own world that abandoned stone buildings in a climate similar to that of Annúminas.

In 122 AD, the Roman Empire began construction of Hadrian's Wall between the River Tyne and the Solway Firth in what is now northern England. It was abandoned in the 5th century. Here are some pictures of what its forts would have looked like in their heyday:


This is what the forts look like today, after excavation:

article-0-00578A1700000258-986_468x286.jpg


Stone houses, even if they are well-built, do not last two thousand years without any kind of maintenance.

Just as a last point, there is some lore that I can bring into this - Tolkien wrote of Fornost thusly: "even the ruins of Kings' Norbury were covered with grass." The once-mighty tower on Amon Sûl was little more than "a ring of broken stones". All that was left of Tharbad was "ruins on dwindling mounds, and a dangerous ford formed by the ruins of the bridge". Though the first two were damaged by war, it is clear that Tolkien intended for the ruins of Arnor to be very heavily ruined indeed - for their original forms to be almost lost to time, much like the slow decline of the blood of Númenor itself. There are obviously visual concerns which dictate why Annúminas must remain largely intact, but it would be misguided to imagine that it is a realistic depiction.
 

Portalrules333

Hardcore MCME-er
Thought I'd weigh in with a few thoughts and responses to stuff that's been said above.



They certainly do not stay undamaged. The pyramids at Chichen Itza are between 800 to 1300 years old mostly, and the examples that you see (i.e. El Castillo) have been excavated and heavily restored. Compare this picture of El Castillo taken in 1892 to one taken a few years ago:

Castillo_Maler.jpg


Chichen_Itza_3.jpg

Chichen Itza was abandoned in around 1250 AD - not under circumstances of war, as far as historians know. So there's about 640 years between it being abandoned and it looking like that first picture. By contrast, Annúminas was abandoned for 2200 years.

But wait, Fornad! I hear you say. Annúminas is under very different climatic conditions to Chichen Itza! Surely it wouldn't have decayed as much?

It is correct to point out that under Annúminas' climatic conditions, stone would weather at a far slower rate. However, let's look at a civilisation similar to Arnor in our own world that abandoned stone buildings in a climate similar to that of Annúminas.

In 122 AD, the Roman Empire began construction of Hadrian's Wall between the River Tyne and the Solway Firth in what is now northern England. It was abandoned in the 5th century. Here are some pictures of what its forts would have looked like in their heyday:


This is what the forts look like today, after excavation:

article-0-00578A1700000258-986_468x286.jpg


Stone houses, even if they are well-built, do not last two thousand years without any kind of maintenance.

Just as a last point, there is some lore that I can bring into this - Tolkien wrote of Fornost thusly: "even the ruins of Kings' Norbury were covered with grass." The once-mighty tower on Amon Sûl was little more than "a ring of broken stones". All that was left of Tharbad was "ruins on dwindling mounds, and a dangerous ford formed by the ruins of the bridge". Though the first two were damaged by war, it is clear that Tolkien intended for the ruins of Arnor to be very heavily ruined indeed - for their original forms to be almost lost to time, much like the slow decline of the blood of Númenor itself. There are obviously visual concerns which dictate why Annúminas must remain largely intact, but it would be misguided to imagine that it is a realistic depiction.
I don't know about that.....even though El Castillo is covered in grass and the top is a little bit bent, it is fairly intact and close to the original shape, just very overgrown. And I'm sure that the inside would be almost fine too.

However, it is a massive pyramid (one of the strongest shapes/structures) so I suppose that a normal stone house could have collapsed completely. It would probably still be more recognizable than an Osgiliath war-bombed house though.

(The depiction of Tharbad is interesting, it sounds far more destroyed then the way we have represented it...it seems like no bridges are left, contrary to the MCME Tharbad)
 
Top