Foreman - Public discussion thread

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What type of rank would you like the Foreman rank to be?

  • Temporary non-staff rank

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • Permanent non-staff rank

    Votes: 14 50.0%
  • Permanent staff rank

    Votes: 11 39.3%

  • Total voters
    28

Finrod_Amandil

Head Designer
Staff member
Head Designer
Designer
Media Team
Mar 2, 2014
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#1
Alright, so now the staff members had the opportunity to discuss about this new rank, a summary of what we discussed you can find below, so I would like to open this for public discussion and any further inputs.

Most notably it still is not firmly set what type of rank it will be. I give you again the same poll as we already had in the latest MCME Times, but this time with all three options in it from the start to give the results some more significance.

Foreman Rank Layout
  1. RANK NAME
    Foreman.

    Plural: Foremen.

  2. HEAD OF RANK
    Head Enforcer and Head Designer.

    As this rank would be a crossover rank of both the 'social' and 'creative' ranks branches both the Head Enforcer (HE) and the Head Designer (HD) should directly oversee this rank.

    An idea might be that, as one Artist and one Guide each will be able to obtain the rank (cf. below) the HD is responsible for the Artist-Foreman and the HE for the Guide-Foreman. Even more interesting might be that the HD is responsible for the Guide-Foreman and the HE for the Artist-Foreman and also promotes the applicant from the 'foreign' branch.

  3. RANK PURPOSE
    The following items make up the core features of the Foreman rank. Thus they have first priority over other, optional tasks (cf. below).
    1. 'Social' purpose: Assure a frequent availability of building possibilities for Adventurers.

    2. 'Creative' purpose: Execute building steps as Jobs or Plotbuilds and support Designers.

      Note that Foremen are not bound to a certain project and thus can not take the role of a fix project leader, project co-leader or project staff. An exception to this is when an Artist already is bound to a project when he gets promoted. As Artist-Foreman he can keep this position but has to put the Foreman purpose and tasks to a higher priority and also has to be open to help as part of other projects.
  4. RANK TASKS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
    Foremen mainly serve under instruction of Designers. If a Designer requests a Foreman to take over a task it is generally expected that the Foreman accepts the request, unless he is already occupied with another of the main tasks specified here. Optional side tasks should be interrupted in order to be able to complete a main task.
    1. Host jobs using the Job Plugin and Discord/Teamspeak:
      Job subjects can be:

      - A Designer who is either project leader, project co-leader or project staff offers/requests a Foreman a building task which is part of the respective project to be executed as a job. The Designer should instruct the Foreman with all necessary information, such as exact scope / area of the task, building style, building guides, time to complete / deadline and where applicable further items. Where reasonable, the Designer can leave any of these up to the Foreman to decide, however he should explicitly state that.

      Designers can also hand larger building tasks which require multiple job sessions to Foremen. He however should be aware of the temporary aspect of the Foreman rank and act accordingly. For example he should make sure that in case the duty period of a Foreman ends before the task is complete, work can be picked up by another Foreman or Designer.

      The task can be executed without supervision of the respective Designer.

      The use of Discord/Teamspeak is to be preferred over written communication.

      - A Foreman can initiate own job subjects as a part of 'derp fixing'. If any derps are found that are as extensive that it is reasonable to execute them as jobs he can work on them without explicit permission. Derp fixing in areas that are subject to fundamental change should be avoided.

    2. Host or assist plotbuilds using the Plotbuild Plugin:

      Foremen can assist Designers in the execution of plotbuilds in the following ways:
      - Create plotbuilds
      - Host plotbuilds (i.e. be the main spokesperson of the plotbuild and assign plots if it is a private plotbuild)
      - Create plots
      - Prepare plots (i.e. building house outlines or similar)
      - Review plots (i.e. leave comments on what to improve)
      - Accept / Reject plots

      Foremen can only assist in or create plotbuilds that have been given permission by a Designer. Designers can only permit plotbuilds within the scope of a project they are either project leader, project co-leader or project staff of. Designers need to explicitly state to which tasks they want the Foreman to be permitted to execute. While Foremen have access to all commands of the Plotbuild plugin they are solely allowed to execute these tasks they have been given permission for by the respective Designer and only on the specific respective Plotbuild. A Foreman may have permissions to help on multiple plotbuilds, however with various permission for each plotbuild.

      The building guide or similar should be created by the Designer in charge.

      Foremen are not permitted to create plotbuilds...
      - as part of an ongoing project, if they don't have the respective Designer's consent.
      - independant of an ongoing project, unless they have the consent of the Head Designer.

    3. Host plotbuilds using the Plotworld:

      Similar to point 2 above, Foremen can host plotbuilds on the plotworld, using the Plotbuild plugin or not as seems fit, when they get permission to do so by an eligible Designer.

      Additionally they can request to be allowed to host an own plotbuild by asking the Head Designer. These can be on a topic that may not serve a specific project and consist of building items that may be used on multiple map locations, such as:
      - Trees
      - Other terrain features such as rocks, bushes, ...
      - Ships
      - Carts
      - Market stalls(?)
      - ...
  5. OPTIONAL TASKS
    Beside the main tasks, Foremen can take on various other tasks. These tasks are lower in priority than the main tasks and their execution should be interrupted or postponed whenever a main task is at hand.

    The optional tasks mainly consist of tasks from among the Artist and Guide competences. Regardless of whether the Foreman is a former Artist or Guide he can execute tasks from either rank's competence. However, if applicable, the Foreman should leave the task to be done by a member of that rank of which the respective task is considered a main task (cf. below).

    Closer descriptions of these tasks are to be taken from the manuals of the respective ranks.
    1. Optional Guide tasks:
      - Host tours
      - Host minigames
      - Host PvP
      - Partake in event planning

    2. Optional Artist tasks:
      - Take on Artist building tasks
      - Fixing of smaller derps

    Additionally Foremen can participate in all the tasks available to all players with rank Adventurer.


  6. PERMISSIONS, ACCESS, TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

    Technical specifications:
    - Ingame rank display name: Foreman
    - Ingame rank color: Aqua (█████)
    - Forum ribbons: [IF PERM][IF STAFF]Staff Member, [IF PERM] Foreman
    - Teamspeak rank /Discord role: Foreman
    - Teamspeak icon: TBA (similar icon with aqua overlay)

    Forums access:
    - Staff Forum: [IF STAFF] YES
    - Staff Project Forum: [?] YES
    - Staff Developer Forum: [IF STAFF] YES
    - See Artist applications: [IF STAFF] YES
    - See Guide applications: [IF STAFF] YES
    - See Staff applications: [IF STAFF] YES

    Google Drive access:
    - All Staff folder: [IF STAFF] YES
    - Designer folder: [IF STAFF] YES

    Plugin / Commands access:
    - WorldEdit: NO
    - VoxelSniper: NO
    - Staff Chat /a: [IF STAFF] YES
    - Job Plugin /job: YES
    - Plotbuild staff commands: YES
    - Themed Builds maintenance: NO
    - Teleport /tppos: YES
    - /asc, /desc, /thru, /jump, /ceil: YES
    - /give: YES
    - /stoplag: NO
    - /dynmap radiusrender: [IF STAFF] YES
    - AutoTeleportation setup /atp: NO
    - ResourceRegions setup: NO

    - Armorstand Editor: YES
    - Banner Editor: YES
    - Painting switcher: YES
    - Artist /get commands: YES
    - Voxel Stencil List Editor: NO
    - Randomiser tool: NO

    - Tours YES
    - Minigames: YES
    - Guidebook: YES

  7. REQUIRED SKILLS AND PROMOTION PROCESS

    Beside the given skills the applicant needs to have in order to have gained either Artist or Guide he should have the basics in the skills of the other rank, however what is much rather relevant is the interest to refine the skills of the 'foreign' rank.

    Required minimum skills / characteristics:
    - Needs to have the rank of Artist or Guide.
    - Needs to be comfortable in using Teamspeak, microphone with decent audio quality is a must.
    - Good enough english skills to be able to give clear instructions.
    - Enough authority and self-confidence to call people to order and/or make them listen if required.
    - Be able to voice constructive criticism and motivate people of any kind.
    - Be able to follow short written or oral instructions when tasks to be completed are described.
    - Be able to build smaller structures (i.e. houses) where either clear instructions or an example build are given.
    - Needs to be comfortable in using the new inventory and should be aware of what blocks and other building elements are available to use.

    [IF NOT PERM] Only a maximum of two Foremen can be serving at a given time. [?] One each should be a former Guide and a former Artist.

    Promotion process:
    - The applicant creates an application in the [?]staff applications forum.
    - The application includes user name, join date, country/timezone/most frequent online time,
    - Pictures of at least one own build from within the MCME network (i.e. Themed Build, Plotbuild, Contest or Job build) More than one build is preferred, and more can be requested.
    - Motivation / Inspiration on why he is applying.
    - [IF STAFF] Paragraph on what makes a good staff member according to the applicant.

    - The HD or a Designer gives feedback on the build if it is not proving any decent building skills yet.
    - Then, [IF NOT PERM] and if the matching rank slot is unoccupied, or is about to get free again as the serving time of a previous Foreman is about to expire, the HD or the HE respectively (cf. point 2 above) invites the applicant for a personal talk, combined with a trial job.
    - The trial job can be organised in collaboration with a Designer.
    - The goal of the trial job is to prove the ability to lead and instruct other people. The trial job can be announced publicly beforehand in order to increase the amount of people joining at the scheduled day/time.
    - The goal of the personal talk is to get an impression of the mentality of the applicant, as well as getting an insight into his eloquence. However it should simply also serve to clear any open questions and to repeat some aspects of the rank which the applicant might not be wholly aware of, or are especially important.
    - If the applicant does satisfy the HD/HE, the promotion on all required places will be executed.

    [IF NOT PERM] A player can apply for Foreman again even if he served as Foreman before already. However if
    there are other relevant applicants, these should be given priority.

  8. DEMOTION

    [IF NOT PERM]
    Every Foreman will be demoted latest after having served for [?]2 months in this rank. The regular demotion can take place no earlier than 24:00 GMT/BST of the same day of the respective month when the promotion took place. E.g a promotion on Dec. 12th, 15:00 GMT will lead to a demotion on earliest February 12th, 24:00 GMT.

    [ALL CASES]
    Furthermore, exceptional demotions can be reasoned by, but not only:
    - Infraction of the ToS / server rules
    - Inactivity (especially if there are open Foreman applications)
    - Not following the tasks as specified in points 4 and 5 above
    - Resignation from side of the Foreman

    An exceptional demotion can be immidiate but should always be paired with an oral or written explanation of the HD/HE.

    [IF NOT PERM]
    Regular promotions can, but don't need to, be accompanied by a short talk / feedback round or similar.
    After a regular demotion, the player returns to his former rank (Guide or Artist).

    [ALL CASES]

    With exceptional demotions the resulting rank/status is to be determined individually. If a demotion to Oathbreaker has to be made, the player usually can return to his former rank (Guide or Artist) but usually not to Foreman. If he'd return to Foreman, the serving period / regular demotion date remains unchanged.
 

Finrod_Amandil

Head Designer
Staff member
Head Designer
Designer
Media Team
Mar 2, 2014
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www.elbisch.ch
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#2
  • Giving temporary / non-staff Foremen access to the staff forums would be tricky; we would have to reliably demote these players on the Forums again swiftly, also many more players would get an insight into all staff threads made so far. While there is not much to hide there, some things might cause conflicts, i.e. insight into staff considerations or planning of events that have not yet been announced.
    Furthermore, Foremen don't require staff forum access in order to get the necessary instructions. These can easily be shared via a public forum.
  • Giving temporary / non-staff Foremen access to staff chat is also questionable; while it would make it possible have a chat between multiple Designers we see the tendency that while staff chat is used rather frequently, there are times where the public chat is dead and leading to the impression nothing is happening right now, so it may be the better solution to communicate via a public chat.
  • To truly make the Foreman rank stand between the Artist and Guide rank the suggestion came up to always have a similar number of Artist-Foremen and Guide-Foremen. Arguments against were that this would again decrease the anyway rather low number of Guides, and at the same time there would be a lot more candidates of the Artist rank, which would make getting Foreman as Artist significantly harder.
  • If too many privileges are given to the Foreman rank it may swiftly grow to a "lesser Designer rank" which theoretically is set lower than the Designer but can still do almost the same things. This is why the former Foreman rank got merged with Architect and Steward a while ago. Not giving Foreman access to the staff forums and thus the early project planning might be an effective way of making sure the Foremen fulfill their prime tasks of leading jobs and help the newer community members getting involved in building.
  • Not making the Foreman rank a staff rank would also render it closer to the "general community" than the staff team, which may make it easier to connect to the newer players.
  • Foreman could take over less complicated projects or part of projects which mainly consist of leading jobs, whenever no other projects have a job to be run, such as terrain jobs (rootfixing, forest vegetation, river beautification, ...) or leading detailing work in cities (building market stalls, ruining, interior work...)
  • Talking on TS / Discord is a must (WITH microphone)
 
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Tyranystrasz

Manual Treebuilder
Mar 1, 2014
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#3
I'm pretty sure that if this become a permanent rank people will stop make jobs after a couple of months and it is gonna become a sitdown rank as a lot of people feared since the idea was brought.
If the rank is temporary more people will be able to obtain it. Artist and guides will have the opportunity to contribute in a different way and it will be easy for them to have the rank because every 2 months there is a switch.
If it becomes a permanent rank and someone gets demoted for inactivity drama will come ( as always ).
Also, we had a votation on staff forums already closed, another one on the times, and now another one. The first 2 with the same result. I don't get the third votation tbh.
 

Ganderp

Aspiring Commoner
Oct 5, 2016
8
9
5
19
Languages
English
#4
Would there be a way to let the Foremen read and have input on the Artist applications, regardless of whether they're staff or not? They'll be watching and guiding the building progress of a lot of Adventurers either way, so I think their opinion on who should/should'nt get promoted has to be considered.
 

TI_020601

Aspiring Commoner
Jul 20, 2016
249
384
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London
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#6
While I do think that the guide foremen are a good idea I would suggest that you wait until there are more than 3 active guides or since there are so few you could and I can't stress this enough temporarily give those perms to all guides, however this would not be necessary for artists as there are enough to promote to foreman and not kill the rank, I also don't like the idea of foremen being able to run tours and mini-games as with so few guides this would make them useless and I don't like the idea of being more obsolete than a VHS tape.
 

Finrod_Amandil

Head Designer
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Designer
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Mar 2, 2014
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#7
Also, we had a votation on staff forums already closed, another one on the times, and now another one. The first 2 with the same result. I don't get the third votation tbh.
I'm redoing the poll from the Times as I added the third option a few days in which ruins any significance of the poll.
Would there be a way to let the Foremen read and have input on the Artist applications, regardless of whether they're staff or not? They'll be watching and guiding the building progress of a lot of Adventurers either way, so I think their opinion on who should/should'nt get promoted has to be considered.
As I do it now is that I often ask the Designers whether they made experience with a certain player. I think I would do that as well with the Foremen, and these feedbacks I receive usually have quite a high influence on my decision.
While I do think that the guide foremen are a good idea I would suggest that you wait until there are more than 3 active guides or since there are so few you could and I can't stress this enough temporarily give those perms to all guides, however this would not be necessary for artists as there are enough to promote to foreman and not kill the rank, I also don't like the idea of foremen being able to run tours and mini-games as with so few guides this would make them useless and I don't like the idea of being more obsolete than a VHS tape.
The reason why I would give Foremen access to Guide is to support the Guides; in fact a Foremen is just a part-time Guide. I haven't had the impression that we really had too many Guide's currently, and with letting Foremen do Guide things we could somewhat increase the number of Guides. As Foremen's focus is job leading it by no means would render Guides obsolete.
 

TI_020601

Aspiring Commoner
Jul 20, 2016
249
384
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London
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#8
The reason why I would give Foremen access to Guide is to support the Guides; in fact a Foremen is just a part-time Guide. I haven't had the impression that we really had too many Guide's currently, and with letting Foremen do Guide things we could somewhat increase the number of Guides. As Foremen's focus is job leading it by no means would render Guides obsolete.
while these are good points if you do want a guide-foreman I suggest that you wait until there are a few more guides.
 

Finrod_Amandil

Head Designer
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Mar 2, 2014
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#9
there will be only one kind of Foremen, when I speak of a Guide-Foreman I just mean A Foreman that was a Guide before. And yes of course, waiting for follow-ups to the Guide rank, especially if we choose the new rank to be permanent, will be something we'll look out for. Dyno anyway will have just as much as say in who to promote as I will.
 

TI_020601

Aspiring Commoner
Jul 20, 2016
249
384
17
16
London
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#10
there will be only one kind of Foremen, when I speak of a Guide-Foreman I just mean A Foreman that was a Guide before. And yes of course, waiting for follow-ups to the Guide rank, especially if we choose the new rank to be permanent, will be something we'll look out for.
Very good sir.
 

Ganderp

Aspiring Commoner
Oct 5, 2016
8
9
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19
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#11
As I do it now is that I often ask the Designers whether they made experience with a certain player. I think I would do that as well with the Foremen, and these feedbacks I receive usually have quite a high influence on my decision.
That's good to know, thanks for clarifying. Does this mean that even non-staff Foremen would have access to Artist applications in the same way Designers do?
 
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Finrod_Amandil

Head Designer
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Mar 2, 2014
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#12
It's an idea, but not necessary, most Designers don't bring too much attention towards the apps anyway, it's really only when I go and ask them for feedback when they influence the application process the most
 

Ganderp

Aspiring Commoner
Oct 5, 2016
8
9
5
19
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#13
It's an idea, but not necessary, most Designers don't bring too much attention towards the apps anyway, it's really only when I go and ask them for feedback when they influence the application process the most
Alright, fair enough.
 

FireFuss

Yellow Flower Puncher
Mar 6, 2014
405
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#14
I'll say it again, between the 3 options the most votes are for a permanent position. Be it either staff or non-staff, it seems like the position should be permanent.

I don't know what it takes for you guys to change permissions like that, but the points brought up above make sense to me. Changing them for a few people every few months just adds to the work you staff guys do already. And in the event they are temporary but have access to the insights of whats coming up/planning ect. you might not be "hiding" anything, but I'm sure not everyone is going to be super tight lipped and keep that stuff to themselves. What would be the point of promoting someone, getting them situated and just when they get comfortable, demoting them and moving someone else up. I feel like the people that want it to be a temporary rank are more or less indifferent. Like they would try for it if it was temporary, knowing that if its not for them they were going to be demoted in two months anyway. I think (my opinion) the rank would work best as a non staff permanent rank. A "bridge" between the designers who feel the need to work on the hugeness of whats going on in server, and the rest of the players waiting to be told what to do.

I'll be honest, like I've said before. When I was foreman I don't think I needed to be part of the "staff" part of the job. I coordinated jobs and ran a bunch of stuff. However most of the in depth planning and design going on was well... better suited for designers to talk about. I mostly just went "uh huh" and then went back to terraforming and other "smaller" jobs. (P.S. I remember having voxel, I did many a river bed with the splatter brush and was editing the White Mountains before I asked to be demoted, also I went through Demons? voxel class.)

Anywho, I'm rambling. I think the rank could be a great bridge between ranks, a good balance between staff and regular players. We'll see what happens when you guys implement it.
 

Daddlio

Manual Treebuilder
Apr 21, 2014
185
553
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#15
since i dont know where else to put:

i want to suggest the /tpahere command for foremen... i really already missed it in jobs and plotbuilds ;)