Improve Rohan

  • Minecraft Middle Earth is a Minecraft community that recreates the world described by JRR Tolkien and his writings. Everyone can participate in organized events in which we collaborate to create major landmarks, terrain, caves, castles, towns, farms and more.

    To get started, visit The New Player Guide

Do you think these improvements are needed ?


  • Total voters
    19

slaMoria

Hardcore MCME-er
Dec 21, 2016
136
152
33
16
France
Languages
English, French
#1
First of all, I m not asking for a totally revamp, some improvements are good enough.
I ve asked to people if they wanna see an improvement of Rohan, and guess what they answered :

Everybody know Rohan is an empty land of plains and large flat hills with fields for the horses. But it has also some farmlands to feed the people and some isolated farms everywhere. But for now Rohan looks like that :



West Emnet on MCME hasn't the density of the one in books and it's empty : no trace of field for horse, most of the tall grass isn't used.

I'm not talking about the East Emnet which is totaly empty like the current Rhûn. I know most of the East Emmet was destroyed after the Great Plague of 1636. It was also flyed by the nomadic herdsmen during the War of the Ring, but it's after the 111th Bilbo's birthday. So it's should be more populated, tents, houses, or every kind of habitations a nomade can have.

Make the Wold inhabited ! That's what I would tell : some tent and that's all, but they were people who lived in the Wold.

And where are the farm lands ? That's one thing unrealistic from the films and we just reused that. How do rohirrims feed themself if they don't have crops ? I think they can't and they would be weak. So let them eating, and make wheat and potatoes growing in the Calenardhon. Please, or Lady Eowin will die in a cage after a long existence of servitude because she didn't get potatoes to defend her country.

Where do Horse Master live ? Only in Edoras and Aldburg ? I don't think, so we could build some houses for them in the West Emnet.

That is why I purpose this :


Green : crops to let people eating and houses for farmers
Yellow : Small houses alones for Horse Masters
Red : tents for nomadic Herdsmen.

I hope I will be listen. Or maybe a total revamp was planned when the pack will be unified.
But for now, the improvements I purpose are enough and would take less than a week (like a week end if we do jobs on it).

Thanks for reading !
laMoria
 

RubenPieterMark

Hardcore MCME-er
Media Team
Mar 12, 2016
676
866
41
15
The glorious Kingdom of the Netherlands
Languages
Dutch, English, French, German
#2
We've had a ton of these discussions, mostly about Bree or the Shire. I think all of Rohan will need a revamp one day, to fit the standards and style of Edoras and Aldburg. But I don't think it's time for it. Priorities would be Mordor and maybe the Shire and Bree as a side project. Also I've never heard an adventurer asking for farms in the West Emnet; seen a lot asking for Mordor and Erebor though.
 

slaMoria

Hardcore MCME-er
Dec 21, 2016
136
152
33
16
France
Languages
English, French
#3
I've never heard an adventurer asking for farms in the West Emnet; seen a lot asking for Mordor and Erebor though.
Am I adventurer ?o_O Nahh, I m artist ! That's why I'm annoying:p. I ve seen that Rohirrims had farms (that's realistic) in the Edoras region on a book to make Role Games, it was in the Description of the Middle Earth part.
 

BWOT

Head Builder
Staff member
Head Designer
Designer
Donor
Jul 31, 2016
1,002
1,562
65
17
U.S.A. , NYC
Languages
English, German, French
#4
I think we should wait on this.
 

Eriol_Eandur

Head Developer
Staff member
Head Developer
Designer
Developer
Donor
Media Team
Sep 19, 2014
1,895
3,079
93
Germany
Languages
German (native), English
#5
I agree very much about Rohan could be improved very much, but...
I remember when we started Lothlorien vegetation revamp. It was guessed to finish in about 2-3 weeks. Was only 8 months in the end. Rohan is much larger, the area we are talking about is about 1/3 of Gondor. Building villages, farms and tents all over this area would take some months even if we would not aim for the same density as in Gondor.
More important the terrain in rohan is default terrain almost everywhere. It's terribly unrealistic. Before working on buildings in Rohan I would strongly recommend to redo the terrain.
So at all this is a very large project and in my opinion we should focus on building places that are not done yet.

Btw from all I have read about Rohan I have the impression (though no prove) that the people of Rohan lived west of the Entwash with very few exceptions. Mainly they lived in the valleys of the White Mountains if I'm not mistaken. I believe in East Emnet there were only herds and herdsmen living in tents. That area was huge and never safe probably with the Misty Mountains in the West, Dol Guldur in the North and Emyn Muil in the east. The last time Rohan was completely overrun is only 300 years ago. Farms and villages were probably all in the more secure western an southern areas near the White Mountains.
 

ryttyr

Artist
Artist
Apr 22, 2014
736
1,073
28
22
Stockholm, Sweden
Languages
English and Swedish
#6
I too have often complained about the lacklustre appearance of our current Rohan (you can read more about my thoughts on the matter in this thread) however I agree with @Eriol_Eandur here, this is no small undertaking. Fixing the issues Rohan has would require a complete revamp of the entire region which would take meny months. And since not meny other people are asking for it its at a rather low priority.

However I don't understand @RubenPieterMark s comment about needing a Shire revamp. The Shire looks fine to me, especially the parts adjacent to Frodo's path which is the parts most people will ever bother to see. Sure, there's plenty of houses that could use a touch-up on their interiors but from an outside view it all looks fine. Are there that meny Adventurers asking for a complete Shire revamp?
 

slaMoria

Hardcore MCME-er
Dec 21, 2016
136
152
33
16
France
Languages
English, French
#7
Alright, I think you aren't understanding what I am asking for. I don't wanna a big revamp and no vegetations, cause there was no forest in Rohan, only grassy fields. The only things I m asking for is to add some crops in the areas I surrounded with green in the thread over and some small houses here and here.
@Eriol_Eandur I ve searched informations about rohan before writting this thread, check these links :
Eastemnet - Tolkien Gateway
Rohan - Tolkien Gateway (look at the 2 first lines and the description part).

Anyway, I understand your smoother brain Eriol ;). I think Rohan could get a nice terraforming from you, but it would take ages to do it, but when Moria would be finished (uhhh, I meant Mordor), we could attack the Ugly Fields of Rohan, to make them looking like Belfalas.

SMOOTH IS THE LIFE !!!
 
Last edited:

ryttyr

Artist
Artist
Apr 22, 2014
736
1,073
28
22
Stockholm, Sweden
Languages
English and Swedish
#8
Alright, I think you aren't understanding what I am asking for. I don't wanna a big revamp, no terraforming, and no vegetations, cause there was no forest in Rohan, only grassy fields. The only things I m asking for is to add some crops in the areas I surrounded with green in the thread over and some small houses here and here.
@Eriol_Eandur I ve searched informations about rohan before writting this thread, check these links :
Eastemnet - Tolkien Gateway
Rohan - Tolkien Gateway (look at the 2 first lines and the description part)
Yes we get that. But that's not what Rohan needs. Adding new buildings atop terrible worldpainter terrain to improve things is the minecraft equivalent of sweeping dust under the rug to get rid of it. Rohan terrain NEEDS to be updated as it is woefully outdated, as with all of Rohan's builds excluding Edoras and Aldburg. Adding the smaller details you ask for at this moment in time is sadly pointless as they'd have to be nuked when we eventually fix the terrain anyways. Rohan needs to be completely revamped in order to match the standards of the rest of the buildworld so adding to it right now would just be a waste of time better used elsewhere.

Much smarter would it be to make all of this into a large side project for Adventurers, Commoners and bored/burned out Artists to work on in the form of plots and/or jobs after Mordor terrain is complete. Starting with revamping and smoothing the terrain and THEN add detail and fix up old builds. Because you can't fix terrain if there's a lot of stuff in the way.
 

slaMoria

Hardcore MCME-er
Dec 21, 2016
136
152
33
16
France
Languages
English, French
#10
Rohan terrain NEEDS to be updated as it is woefully outdated, as with all of Rohan's builds excluding Edoras and Aldburg.

Much smarter would it be to make all of this into a large side project for Adventurers, Commoners and bored/burned out Artists to work on in the form of plots and/or jobs after Mordor terrain is complete. Starting with revamping and smoothing the terrain and THEN add detail and fix up old builds. Because you can't fix terrain if there's a lot of stuff in the way.
True I think we could stole a designer, specially @mattlego when he will be done with the No Man's land. He has been working on the whole Anfalas' terrain so I think he's the best with Eriol to get the lands of the Eotheod perfect. It would be funny for artist to make rohan like they want tho (by being in lore ofc).
 

ryttyr

Artist
Artist
Apr 22, 2014
736
1,073
28
22
Stockholm, Sweden
Languages
English and Swedish
#11
True I think we could stole a designer, specially @mattlego when he will be done with the No Man's land. He has been working on the whole Anfalas' terrain so I think he's the best with Eriol to get the lands of the Eotheod perfect. It would be funny for artist to make rohan like they want tho (by being in lore ofc).
Who will best lead the terraforming I don't know but right now that doesn't really matter. When Dol Amroth is done Mordor work will hopefully be ready to be begun in ernest which would require the attention of meny Designers and if not then that means the Designers are still busy working with the preparations. Moria work is also picking up the pace once more now that work isn't as needed in Dol Amroth (or maybe because people start to tire of DA, I don't know). This too requires much attention from the Designers, to oversee and plan the work and to use World Edit and Voxel to create all of the massive halls of Moria. We simply don't have the manpower to start this Rohan revamp project right now or for quite some time. But it needs to and most likely WILL be done in the near (by MCME's definition) future.
 
Last edited:

Eriol_Eandur

Head Developer
Staff member
Head Developer
Designer
Developer
Donor
Media Team
Sep 19, 2014
1,895
3,079
93
Germany
Languages
German (native), English
#12
@Eriol_Eandur I ve searched informations about rohan before writting this thread, check these links :
Eastemnet - Tolkien Gateway
Rohan - Tolkien Gateway (look at the 2 first lines and the description part).
Tolkien Gateway and all the other wikis are nice collections of information. But not too reliable. I use them often for a quick look, but then check the primary sources (I don't say this is necessary, but I enjoy it). Yesterday I scanned through the Appendices of LotR and also the Unfinished Tales for details about Rohan, but I didn't find anything definitive about settlements in the plains.
The post at Tolkien Gateway about East Emnet relies only on the chapter "Riders of Rohan" where Eomer told Aragorn that he withdew the herds from East Emnet. The conlusion of the post is that there were few fixed settlements there, but that's only a guess. Same with the post about Rohan, there are no information in it where the Rohirrim had fixed settlements and where not.
So in the end we are free to decide if we want to build settlements in the East Emnet, I would prefere not to do it.

Another word about the terrain. At the moment you can't really call it the plains of Rohan, everything is quite hilly in Rohan. I would like to try making it much more like plains (though might be hard to make that look nice in Minecraft).
 

ryttyr

Artist
Artist
Apr 22, 2014
736
1,073
28
22
Stockholm, Sweden
Languages
English and Swedish
#13
Another word about the terrain. At the moment you can't really call it the plains of Rohan, everything is quite hilly in Rohan. I would like to try making it much more like plains (though might be hard to make that look nice in Minecraft).
Maybe compromise and do rolling plains for a tad more variety?
 

Credoo

Vala
Staff member
Designer
Mar 1, 2014
451
1,128
41
30
Atlantic Ocean
en.wikipedia.org
#14
I'm gonna try to ignore the fact that you most of you are shitting on the worldpainter terrain. However default it may it seem you have to remember that there was time spend on it back in the day. Not only by me and homie on the worldpainter map but also people voxeling endless hours afterwards.

So on to the point Rohan revamp someday yeah. But when we do the eventual revamp base terrain done with world machine then worldpainter so no endless amount of terraforming will be spend on it.

Additional villages yes maybe if it fits. Additional farmland yes if it fits. I've always seen rohan to be a similar to the Mongolian steppes vast empty planes and with our current scale its hard to recreate that if we add tons of villages and farmland.
 

Eriol_Eandur

Head Developer
Staff member
Head Developer
Designer
Developer
Donor
Media Team
Sep 19, 2014
1,895
3,079
93
Germany
Languages
German (native), English
#15
I'm sorry @Credoo. I wrote without too much thinking about but I did not forget all that work. That's another reason to put this project on low priority. There are other areas on the map where less work has been spent on and should be improved first.
Also I don't want to smooth such a large area with Voxel for sure. I experimented a bit with WorldMashine some months ago to make plains and low hills, but I did't get nice results and other stuff kept me busy since then.

Maybe compromise and do rolling plains for a tad more variety?
In the books there is a lot of variety in Rohan. There are lowlands along River Entwash with very high grass (higher than the knees of a rider) and wet soil (even swamps are mentioned) at many places. Especially at the eastern parts of West Emnet. Thus the main path from north to south was at the eastern banks of River Entwash. Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli took the direct path from Fangorn to Edoras straight through West Emnet only as Shadowfax knew the lowlands very well and was able to find a path there. In East Emnet the gound was more hard and the grass shorter. There was the Wold in the north where there were quite steep hills and south of the Wold here were lower hill lands or rolling plains. Westfold and Eastfold werer probably also more hilly with some foothills of the White Mountains.
 

Tyranystrasz

Designer
Staff member
Designer
Mar 1, 2014
829
1,672
33
22
Italy
Languages
Italian English Norwegian(basic)
#16
No more villages and stuff for now, why? Simple answer, the terrain needs to be redone, so dealing with more villages and farms will only create more problems when we'll remake the terrain
 

Fireinferno13

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
1,865
4,888
84
United States
#18
Perhaps a better project, if you are really interested in improving previous builds, would be improving the handful of northern Gondor villages (above Minas Tirith). To Tyr's point, this region is comparatively less likely to be completely redone in the future to my understanding.

The project would entail increasing farmland and perhaps adding some of the new blocks/decor/etc.
 

ryttyr

Artist
Artist
Apr 22, 2014
736
1,073
28
22
Stockholm, Sweden
Languages
English and Swedish
#19
I'm gonna try to ignore the fact that you most of you are shitting on the worldpainter terrain. However default it may it seem you have to remember that there was time spend on it back in the day. Not only by me and homie on the worldpainter map but also people voxeling endless hours afterwards.

So on to the point Rohan revamp someday yeah. But when we do the eventual revamp base terrain done with world machine then worldpainter so no endless amount of terraforming will be spend on it.

Additional villages yes maybe if it fits. Additional farmland yes if it fits. I've always seen rohan to be a similar to the Mongolian steppes vast empty planes and with our current scale its hard to recreate that if we add tons of villages and farmland.
I'm sorry for calling your worldpainter terrain terrible. It was just stupid wording in the heat of the moment and it's actually rather good for being machine made terrain. I've definitely seen worse, and to be completely honest I don't think I've ever seen worse actually. Only problem with it is that it looks and feels quite outdated nowadays, especially due to its uniformity (which is one thing I would like to see improved when we revamp Rohan).