Lore questions and answer

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spike010

Hardcore MCME-er
#3
Let's see if you can solve this djax.

I am working on a project building Dol Guldur on the freebuild server with @Dargona1018 and @bender400 and we had encountered bit of a problem before the website crashed. On the Tolkien Gateway, one page claims that the Woodelves built Dol Guldur while another says that Sauron did. This problem hasn't caused much problem in the project, but it would be nice to know the answer to. So pretty much, I am asking who built Dol Guldur.

#UltimateMiddleEarthLoreTest
 

djax74

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
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France, but Valinor on week-ends
#4
SO ....
The only clue in the Unfinished Tales of the 2nd Age is (sorry if the translation isn't awesome)
Thranduil's realm strechted in the wood around the Lonely Mountain, which covered the western side of Long Lake, before the coming of dwarves and raids of dragons. This elven people emigrated from the South, where they were parent and neighbour of Lòrien elves ; but they have stayed in Greenwood the Great, at the east of Anduin.
According to this, south Mirkwood were inhabited by elves in the past. That is highly possible that they settled around Amon Lanc, as it is said on many websites but I don't know if it is clearly mentionned by Tolkien or his son. In my mind, the elves built their capital around Amon Lanc. Indeed, Amon lanc means "Bald hill" and silvan elves wouldn't settled in a place without trees. They could have digged tunnels and halls under the Hill, like Thranduil's caverns but even this one is described as "wooded hill".
To conclude, Sylvan elves possibly lived under hill but most probably around and afterwards Sauron erected Dol Guldur at the top. For Dul Guldur project, you should use a "evil " style because Sauron wouldn't have kept his fortress elvish looking. As Minas Morgul, Cirith Ungol, Durthang, Morannon which were Gondorian outpost, he perverted it. The best example is Minas Ithil : it was surely a stunning city, white and Glittering like Minas Anor, and it became a dark and gloomy place.
 
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JordD04

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
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#6
Pretty sure it was built by Sauron, the confusions coming from the fact that both the hill and fortress are called Dol Guldur, Dol Guldur mean hill of Dark Sorcery.

Also, just want to clarify, Morannon, was built by Sauron.
 

arcusthehero

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 2, 2014
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#8
jord, it used to be called Amon Lanc. it wasn't called Dol Guldur until the Necromancer lived there.
 

Fornad

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
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#9
Quote from Unfinished Tales:
Long before the War of the Alliance, Oropher, King of the Silvan Elves east of Anduin, being disturbed by rumours of the rising power of Sauron, had left their ancient dwellings about Amon Lanc, across the river from their kin in Lórien.
So it seems they had a capital of some sort around the hill, but Sauron's servants built Dol Guldur.
 

wheelleee

Build-Hardened Veteran
Mar 1, 2014
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#12
My thinking is that there was an elven ruin there when sauron came, he just build a big old tower and battlements in its center and excavated a prison and dungeon :p
 

Will_Slams

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
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#14
So when did Dol Guldur get all ruined? I know it was finally completely destroyed during the War of the Ring by Galadriel, but why is it all ruined during The Hobbit?
 

wheelleee

Build-Hardened Veteran
Mar 1, 2014
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#16
Yes, the movies did get THAT right, but they forgot to put sauron's tower and battlemented wall in the center D: THAT would have been BETTER than a bunch of stinking made up characters, cuz they could fit an entire dungeon chase sequence in there, and expand the revelation of sauron with a MUCH more dramatic effect.
 
#17
From The Hill of Sorcery a chapter in WETA's Art & Design.
... as Radagast or Gandalf picked their way through the trees and thorns they would suddenly realize they had in fact entered the castle, but everything was so overgrown that the architecture wasn't immediately apparent.
very strong directionality. All lines run toward the central castle...
The fortress itself and the hill has, to a large extend fallen away. It was so riddled with dungeons and underground passages ... like a termite nest that has broken open on one side...
 

JordD04

Hardcore MCME-er
Mar 1, 2014
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#19
I wonder how Melkor was called in Gondor. Would they use the sindarin name or they have their own ?
He probably wasn't known. The Gondorians weren't exactly Lore Masters, especially not at the time of the war of the ring. However they probably used the same name Sauron did, so Melkor. Due to the history with Sauron in Numenor.
 

vShen

Hardcore MCME-er
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Mar 3, 2014
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#20
He probably wasn't known. The Gondorians weren't exactly Lore Masters, especially not at the time of the war of the ring. However they probably used the same name Sauron did, so Melkor. Due to the history with Sauron in Numenor.
Didn't all of the people of Middle-Earth also potentially forget Melkor after he was decapitated and imprisoned within the Void because of all of the evil he had done?