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LOTR/GoT Crossover

Discussion in 'Tavern Talk' started by pourtugueseguy, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. pourtugueseguy

    pourtugueseguy Aspiring Commoner

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    Title ^ nuff said. please don't be rude if you review it be critical so something like
    not rude like
    anyway enjoy the story also does anyone know a good title i can use.

    Ok enjoy

    “And who are you, the proud lord said,

    that I must bow so low?

    Only a cat of a different coat,

    that's all the truth I know.

    In a coat of gold or a coat of red,

    a lion still has claws,

    And mine are long and sharp, my lord,

    as long and sharp as yours.

    And so he spoke, and so he spoke,

    that lord of Castamere,

    But now the rains weep o'er his hall,

    with no one there to hear.

    Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,

    and not a soul to hear.”


    “HOUSE LANNISTER” Shouted the Lannister host in unison whilst drinking their fill. Tywin Lannister rose from his chair and stood looking around at his men.


    “ Tomorrow we begin the conquest of this Middle-Earth. My son Ser Jaime will lead the initial attack on the Gray Havens whilst i will take a quarter of our forces and take 20,000 men to attack the Dwarves in the Blue Mountains. Tomorrow we take our place in this realm tomorrow House Lannister

    will reign victorious. HOUSE LANNISTER!”


    The Lannister host rose up and rasied up their mugs.


    “HOUSE LANNISTER!”
     
  2. Fornad

    Fornad Yellow flower puncher
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    This might be of interest to you:

    "Army of Rohan. 12,000-13,000. This was the easiest, because UT states plainly that the full muster of Rohan was 100 eoreds, each not less than 120 riders. It also states that doubtless many more than 12,000 could be mustered so that Theoden would not leave his strongholds undefended even if he did ride with the full muster to Gondor.

    Army of Gondor. 20,000-21,000. This is based on Imrahil's comment at the last debate that the size of the force they were sending against Mordor (seven thousand) was scarcely the size of the vanguard of the army in the days of its strength. In Medieval armies the vanguard is almost universally 1/3 of the total force. This is also based on the approximate size of the garrison of Minas Tirith (after being reinforced from the fiefs) which I reckon at about 6,000 (3,000 from the fiefs and the estimate of 3,000 in the usual garrison--based on Aragorn's statments at Last Debate on the strength coming up from the South and the number of defenders being left behind being at least as strong as prior to the siege.

    Army of Thranduil. 3,000. This is based on his strength at the Battle of Five Armies where he had 1,000 Elvish spearmen and the estimate of 1,000 bowmen and the determination that he would not have left his forest stronghold unguarded (a reasonable guess that he would not have taken any more than 2/3 of his available warriors).

    Army of Dain. 2,000 This is based on the strength of Dain's force at the battle of Five Armies 500 axe bearing dwarves (a force solely from the iron Hills), the fact that Thorin requested that the ravens bear word to his kin in the north, west and east (of whom only the Iron Hills dwarves had arrived) and the fact that Gimli states that they had increased in strength by the time of the War of the Ring.

    Army of Dale. 2,000. This is a number based on Bard's force at the battle of Five Armies, the Men and Dwarves were in one wing and the Elves in the other. There were 500 Dwarves, 1,000 Elf-spearmen (and my estimated 1,000 Elf-bowmen) so I would anticipate that the Dwarves and Elves together were at least near to the size of the Elven army. There is also the fact that Gimli states that King Brand ruled "many men" and his land extended south and east. A look at the map shows that the logical bounds for such a realm are the rivers Running and Redwater, about half the size of Rohan. This area had been severely depopulated but was since on the mend since the demise of Smaug.

    Woodmen and Beornings 1,200. This is based on the incident of Isildur's death as told in UT. The woodmen got together a force to contest the 2,000+ orcs that attacked Isildur and his 200-strong guard. Given the inferior fighting qualities of orcs it would still require a significant force (say half the number as the orc host plus they would not have left their homes unguarded. Since there were no Beornings at the time of the hobbit I assumed they were one people that divided (but kept their cultural ties) by the time of the War and they had a relatively stable population (a great achievement given the evil things that were on the increase in Mirkwood).

    Army of Lorien 3,500-4,000. This is based on my estimate of the total of Thranduil's army and the various statements in UT that say by the time of the War that most of the Silvan elves lived in Lorien as opposed to Greenwood (which had been opposite in the Second Age)

    High Elves 1,500. I estimate that Rivendell probably had only a few hundred High Elf defenders since they were rapidly abandoning ME and many of the remainder no longer cared for ME matters. Grey Havens, the Forlond and Harlond probably had slightly larger contingents since most of the Noldor and Sindar refugees were in this area. These would probably defend their havens and Rivendell and not be attacking anyone.
    "

    So around 47'000 soldiers in total if the armies of the West got together to fight a Lannister invasion towards the end of the Third Age. Considering their strongholds (Minas Tirith, Helm's Deep, Erebor, the forests for the Elves) as well as the Elves' superhuman abilities and Gondorians' strength and height compared to normal humans (not even counting in the magical weapons, i.e. Andúril, and creatures, i.e. Eagles, they have on their side), I don't think a force of 60'000 men could win an offensive war, especially with a lack of knowledge about the land they are attacking.

    This isn't taking Sauron into account, who has around 300'000 to 400'000 troops. If he sided with the Lannisters, the Free Peoples would be annihilated. If he attacked all of Westeros with his combined forces (even without the Ring or any help from the Free Peoples), he'd stomp them. Levied peasants don't do well against armoured trolls.

    Fun concept.
     
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  3. Fireinferno13

    Fireinferno13 One of Us
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    Question, who would win:
    Three of these?
    [​IMG]
    Or One of These?
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. QuantaCube

    QuantaCube Foreman
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    Well, a dragon doesn't have a flaming sword/whip so the balrog can overpower at least one. The balrog can not be killed by fire and can not easily be pushed over with wind. So balrog would win.
     
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  5. JordD04

    JordD04 One of Us
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    Balrogs wreck Dragons, something to consider when looking at the Dragon vs Balrog argument in the Lore, is the origin and numbers. Dragons were produced on mass by Morgoth in the early years of Arda. Balrogs, number only around 7 (this is argued over as an accurate number was never given, I've also heard 5), they were also Ainur and were described as Creatures of "Fire and Darkness", this suggest they have some form of Magical capabilities. Some dragons in the Tolkien lore have magical capabilities (nothing that could overwhelm a balrog) but as far as I'm aware, The Westeros dragons do not. You should also compare the rate of Balrog deaths vs the rate of Dragon deaths.

    Tl;dr : 3 Flying Fire Lizards vs 1 Undying Spirit of Darkness and Fire. Durin's bane looks forward to a nice breakfast.
     
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  6. djax74

    djax74 Yellow flower puncher

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    Dragons use fire, balrogs are fire
     
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  7. djax74

    djax74 Yellow flower puncher

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    Awesome but you forgot hobbits. I'm sure they could fight if needed.

    EDIT : Are you sure a vanguard is 1/3 of the army ? I would personnally say 1/4, because it should be smalller than the main army which would be approximately 1/2, and the last 1/4 could be for the rear guard.
     
    #7 djax74, Mar 19, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  8. Fornad

    Fornad Yellow flower puncher
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    It only included troops equivalent to or better than Lannister forces, so hobbits don't count.

    Often the vanguard (placed on the left usually) was the same size as the 'main' army (an often misleading term) and rearguard. Even if the main army was larger, it's still about 30'000 men.
     
  9. Ardelenia

    Ardelenia Yellow flower puncher

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    balrogs were ainur? (slightly off-topic, i know)
     
  10. Fornad

    Fornad Yellow flower puncher
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    Yep. They are Maiar (like Sauron, Gandalf and Saruman), who form part of the Ainur along with the Valar (like Manwë, Ulmo and Aulë) and those other Ainur who did not descend into Arda.
     
  11. arcusthehero

    arcusthehero Aspiring Commoner

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    Tolkien shoulda come up with more terms for different types of Ainur. Would have been more helpful.
     
  12. Se7

    Se7 Yellow flower puncher
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    I don't know about you, but that goat seems pretty powerful.
     
  13. pourtugueseguy

    pourtugueseguy Aspiring Commoner

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    This chapter may be a bit bad and may have some mistakes as i was tired when i wrote it but i'll let you decide so without further ado enjoy :)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    “M’lord the vanguard has engaged the Elves outside the gates but the Elves have formed a shield wall. We can’t breach it”

    Jaime Lannister gave the young man a nod and sent him on his way he walked over to his table grabbed his sword and helm and made for the exit.

    “Men, Men form up. We know little of these Elves we don’t know their strengths and their weaknesses but there is one thing we do know. What we do know is that they shall hear us roar”

    Jaime put on his helm and unsheathed his sword and pointed it in the direction of the battle

    “Charge”


    Kings Landing


    Cersei Lannister took her seat on the small council and turned towards the members

    “I have called a meeting of the small council to discuss threat posed by this “Middle-Earth” in an attempt to put down this threat my father the Hand of the King has sailed with a Lannister host along with my brother Ser Jaime.

    Before she could finish King Joffrey entered the room tailed by the Kingsguard

    “This better be important. There are important matters which require kings’ attention”

    Tyrion turned to Joffrey.

    “And this is one of them”

    Joffrey took a seat and turned to the rest of the council

    “And...What is it then?”

    “Your grace, your grandfather lord Tywin has landed in Middle-Earth in order to crush the threat posed”

    Joffrey sighed and turned to lord Baelish

    “Threat...What threat they’re no danger to us what so ever they just like us easy to kill”

    Lord Varys interrupted

    “Don’t mind me interrupting you your grace but we know nothing of them. Nothing their weapons, structures, armour , tactics, and strength we’ve gone in blind”

    Joffrey stood up ready to leave

    “Make sure the coast of that “Middle-Earth” is secure before any others land there we can’t fight a war in two realms”
     
  14. djax74

    djax74 Yellow flower puncher

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    @pourtugueseguy
    Just saying, I don't think elves can block thousands of men just with a shield wall, especially if they are widely outnumbered.
     
    #14 djax74, Mar 23, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  15. pourtugueseguy

    pourtugueseguy Aspiring Commoner

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    I think i may have been playing a bit to much TATW. Thanks for pointing it out though
     
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  16. Fireinferno13

    Fireinferno13 One of Us
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    Varys knowing nothing of a potential threat, hahahahahahaha, thats cute
     
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