Missing stuff in (almost) finished areas

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Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
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#1
I was having a conversation with @ardelenia the other day on the server that spurred this on; we were talking about a few places in currently-built-up areas that aren't really represented in any form. Some of these are from regions that are maybe less-complete than others, so they may be planned already, in which case feel free to point and laugh.

--Farmer Cotton's house: Kind of a small thing, but we know from "The Scouring of the Shire" that the Cotton family lived on a farm in Bywater. However, we don't really have a specific house labeled as theirs, like we do for most of the Hobbiton families and a few others. This one might be as simple as just putting up a sign, unless one wanted to get more in-depth and have beds for all the family members, like for the Gamgee residence.

--The Old Forest: The hobbits are mentioned as having to clamber through a bunch of small gullies or ravines across their intended path, until they wind up going down into a large one they can't climb out of, which eventually leads them to the Withywindle. Honestly this would be ridiculously impractical to tweak at this point, since it'd involve redoing chunks of the Old Forest, and it's definitely not worth it.

--Barrow-downs features: This is probably my biggest personal wish. When the hobbits travel through the Barrow-downs, they rest on top of a hill with a shallow depression on top, with a big white rock in the center. Afterwards, when the fog rolls in, Frodo heads towards a pair of pillars in a valley that seems to head towards the Great Road, but it winds up dead-ending, and that's when he's grabbed by the wight. There are one or two hills that almost fit the first description, but nothing that matches the second, which was always a really memorable scene for me. Also I think the Great Road north of there was described as having a line of trees along it, since that's what the hobbits saw in the distance.

--Ettenmoors/Ettendales: Kind of a rugged hilly region to the north of Rivendell in the foothills of the mountains, where trolls hung out and did bad things to people. I know there's a lot of northern Eriador still left to do, so that's probably something for later.

--Naith of Lothlorien: Right near the confluence with the Anduin, there was a lawn where the Fellowship received gifts from Galadriel and said goodbye to her. This probably wouldn't involve more than taking out a few trees to make a clearing.

--Sarn Gebir: This one's kind of a biggie. They were a series of strong rapids in the Anduin in Emyn Muil, above the Argonath, with a portage-way along the western bank to bypass them. The Fellowship was attacked by orc archers at night here, and narrowly missed hitting the rapids. I know it's come up in the past that we couldn't really do anything to make the Anduin descend there, because of the surrounding terrain, but something I think could work is building the rocks in the river, then adding/removing water source blocks to simulate the water flowing around them. (Interestingly enough, this location was supposed to be in the film as well, but a severe flash-flood wiped out the constructed sets at the filming location, so it was never shot.)

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. If anyone has other little spots they miss having on the server, post away!
 

Ardelenia

Slab Fanatic
Mar 1, 2014
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#2
I am currently doing a "census" of the shire; when I am done I will compile a list of all the many houses that are missing beds.
@PD_Top_Gun about sarn gebir there was a lot of discussion earlier about this and people did bring up the same method you mentioned. I don't remember why we decided "no" but there must've been a good reason (enough people wanted it).
 

MaDIIReD

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Mar 1, 2014
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#3
The line of trees was actually a wall which we built. I'll take a look ar the pillar thing with the dead-end valley and the white stone though.
 

Finrod_Amandil

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#4
I was having a conversation with @ardelenia the other day on the server that spurred this on; we were talking about a few places in currently-built-up areas that aren't really represented in any form. Some of these are from regions that are maybe less-complete than others, so they may be planned already, in which case feel free to point and laugh.
No worries, every derp is worth mentioning.

--Farmer Cotton's house: Kind of a small thing, but we know from "The Scouring of the Shire" that the Cotton family lived on a farm in Bywater. However, we don't really have a specific house labeled as theirs, like we do for most of the Hobbiton families and a few others. This one might be as simple as just putting up a sign, unless one wanted to get more in-depth and have beds for all the family members, like for the Gamgee residence.
Will check that.

--The Old Forest: The hobbits are mentioned as having to clamber through a bunch of small gullies or ravines across their intended path, until they wind up going down into a large one they can't climb out of, which eventually leads them to the Withywindle. Honestly this would be ridiculously impractical to tweak at this point, since it'd involve redoing chunks of the Old Forest, and it's definitely not worth it.
I know that since I layed out the fellowships route. The thing with the terrain inside the Forest indeed is something rather not worth considering fixing, the reason for it being that also in many many other places the terrain doesn't match and thus this merely would include redoing the whole map which we wont do in the far foreseeable future. Right now I'm improving the Mountains of Moria where for the sake of lore accuracy I'm turning the deepest valleys into high mountains and the other way around which is even with voxel really nasty.
Something that may be tackled though in the Old Forest is making a proper path along the Withywindle

--Barrow-downs features: This is probably my biggest personal wish. When the hobbits travel through the Barrow-downs, they rest on top of a hill with a shallow depression on top, with a big white rock in the center. Afterwards, when the fog rolls in, Frodo heads towards a pair of pillars in a valley that seems to head towards the Great Road, but it winds up dead-ending, and that's when he's grabbed by the wight. There are one or two hills that almost fit the first description, but nothing that matches the second, which was always a really memorable scene for me. Also I think the Great Road north of there was described as having a line of trees along it, since that's what the hobbits saw in the distance.
When I did the fellowship (or rather Frodos) route here I just did not intend changing anything. As, if well thought about, this may not be too much of terraforming and such I keep that in mind and will probably adjust that.

--Ettenmoors/Ettendales: Kind of a rugged hilly region to the north of Rivendell in the foothills of the mountains, where trolls hung out and did bad things to people. I know there's a lot of northern Eriador still left to do, so that's probably something for later.
- not worked on yet

--Naith of Lothlorien: Right near the confluence with the Anduin, there was a lawn where the Fellowship received gifts from Galadriel and said goodbye to her. This probably wouldn't involve more than taking out a few trees to make a clearing.
Will check that.

--Sarn Gebir: This one's kind of a biggie. They were a series of strong rapids in the Anduin in Emyn Muil, above the Argonath, with a portage-way along the western bank to bypass them. The Fellowship was attacked by orc archers at night here, and narrowly missed hitting the rapids. I know it's come up in the past that we couldn't really do anything to make the Anduin descend there, because of the surrounding terrain, but something I think could work is building the rocks in the river, then adding/removing water source blocks to simulate the water flowing around them. (Interestingly enough, this location was supposed to be in the film as well, but a severe flash-flood wiped out the constructed sets at the filming location, so it was never shot.)
This was a topic earlier and also the idea with the level floating water came up before. I want to work on the streams inside the Emyn Muil anyway as Aragorn & Co. / Merry+Pippin come along several streams in there and initially none was there; so I want to make a realistic number of streams in there which also includes making some larger rivers to bring the water to the. I may have a look in Sarn Gebir at that point.


Ty very much for that collection!
 

Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
159
194
17
#6
Thanks for the detailed breakdown Finrod. There's one other thing that I meant to post on here but totally slipped my mind: some sort of settlement/encampment for the remains of the Dunedain of Arnor. I know it was discussed here at least once in the past, and the consensus seemed to be that they'd be best located in the Angle, to the southwest of Rivendell. We do have multiple Ranger camps throughout Eriador, but there would have been some place where they actually lived and raised families and such, and that seems as good a location as any to do it.
 

wyliewylie

Aspiring Commoner
Jul 5, 2014
263
241
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Toronto
#7
Would there be any northern dunedain camped in ruined places such as fornost to keep watch over the north?
Im not exactly a lore buff at all, but it seems like it would make sense.
 

Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
159
194
17
#8
I think there are already some Dunedain tents in the ruins up there, actually, along with Sarn Gebir and a few other places. The Rangers had to be all over the place in order to keep an eye on the Shire and Bree.
 

Ardelenia

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Mar 1, 2014
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#9
This is a kinda large project that I'd like to bring to consideration. If you look at dunland on the old map, you'll notice that there are little settlements in a few places. This happened way back when near the end of 2012, just for reference. I think it would be good to add these dunlending villages again, since they must live somewhere, though maybe we should wait and do that when we do lond daer so it's kind of minhiriath and dunland at the same time.
 

DSESGH

Manual Treebuilder
Mar 2, 2014
1,219
1,790
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#10
Would there be any northern dunedain camped in ruined places such as fornost to keep watch over the north?
Im not exactly a lore buff at all, but it seems like it would make sense.
I think Angmar would have been the only real threat from the north, but, according to Tolkien Gateway, it was defeated by Prince Eärnur of Gondor in T.A. 1975. I suppose there could have been one or two camps, just as an assurance, but I don't think they would need any great amount of rangers. Besides, in the time approaching the War of the Ring, Sauron was a much larger threat, and they would probably use all of their forces in the southern regions.

I'm not a lore buff either, so I had to google all of this
 

Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
159
194
17
#11
Even beyond forces under Sauron's direct control, there was still plenty of nasty stuff in the wilds of Eriador. The Shire was attacked by white wolves during the Fell Winter, when Bilbo was only 20 or so, and there were marauding Trolls in the lands to the east of Bree, among other dangers; all of these things started to get stirred up even more after Sauron revealed himself openly again. Aragorn alluded to this during the Council of Elrond: " 'Strider' I am to one fat man who lives within a day’s march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly."
 

Glov

One Of Us
Mar 1, 2014
534
1,532
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#12
This is a kinda large project that I'd like to bring to consideration. If you look at dunland on the old map, you'll notice that there are little settlements in a few places. This happened way back when near the end of 2012, just for reference. I think it would be good to add these dunlending villages again, since they must live somewhere, though maybe we should wait and do that when we do lond daer so it's kind of minhiriath and dunland at the same time.
Me and Fire were going to do this before Gondor if we had the time. But as we finished up in Rohan we decided to put it off for later. I had a whole map for villages, roads, rivers, etc. But i cant seem to find it. I'm sure it will be done eventually when someone wants to pick it up.
I...along with Sarn Gebir and a few other places...
*Sarn Ford*
I think Angmar would have been the only real threat from the north, but, according to Tolkien Gateway, it was defeated by Prince Eärnur of Gondor in T.A. 1975. I suppose there could have been one or two camps, just as an assurance, but I don't think they would need any great amount of rangers. Besides, in the time approaching the War of the Ring, Sauron was a much larger threat, and they would probably use all of their forces in the southern regions.

I'm not a lore buff either, so I had to google all of this
From Aragorn at the council of Elrond.
"If Gondor, Boromir, has been a stalwart tower, we have played another part. Many evil things there are that your strong walls and bright swords do not stay. You know little of the lands beyond your bounds. Peace and freedom, do you say? The North would have known them little but for us. Fear would have destroyed them. But when dark things come from the houseless hills, or creep from the sunless woods, they fly from us. What roads would any dare to tread, what safety would there be in quiet lands, or in the homes of simple men at night, if the Dunedain were asleep, or were all gone into the grave? And yet less thanks we have than you."
Also worth mentioning, the Nazgul entered the Shire by way of Sarn Ford, which was guarded by the Dunedain. I dont believe its necessarily specified, but i would think there may have been a conflict of sorts when the Nazgul attempted to cross. But there were most definitely other dangers the Rangers guarded the North against besides the Nine.

Also, besides the Grey company that came down from the North with Elladan and Elrohir to join Aragorn, no other rangers (afaik) went south to help in the War of the Ring. But this is just going of off my base knowledge in the Trilogy.
 
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Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
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#14
Whoops, stuck in the wrong Sarn mode there. There actually is a bit in Unfinished Tales about the Nazgul storming the Ford, and the Rangers being killed or driven away before them, since presumably only Aragorn would have had the strength of will to stand against them.

Anything about osgiliath worth mentioning? Or anything of the current projects going on?
Not that I can think of off the top of my head. It might be fun to throw in a little campfire remnant in Ithilien where Sam stewed up the coneys, though obviously it wouldn't really have happened yet. As far as Osgo goes, I know there were a few people in the past upset about the Morgulduin emptying into Anduin through the city instead of to the south of it, but I think that was a larger map-scale compromise issue, and honestly I think the end result looks really cool.
 

DSESGH

Manual Treebuilder
Mar 2, 2014
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#15
One big thing I noticed on one of the audiobook tours is that the gate to Caras Galadhon is supposed to actually have gates, and not just be an archway.
 

Ardelenia

Slab Fanatic
Mar 1, 2014
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#16
Anything about osgiliath worth mentioning? Or anything of the current projects going on?
The thread is for things in finished places, after all. And same as pd, the only complaint i've heard/had is about the morgalduin. Not counting people complaining because it has to be ruined.
 

Will_em

One Of Us
Mar 1, 2014
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#17
I just want to note that if you see anything missing in current projects, post it on the jobs and projects thread of said thing. That way we can avoid mistakes instead of fixing them.
 

Finrod_Amandil

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#18
One big thing I noticed on one of the audiobook tours is that the gate to Caras Galadhon is supposed to actually have gates, and not just be an archway.
Added.
Thanks very much to @Georget1011 for his attempt (Honestly this gate was not an easy thing to do) aswell as @Jetfire301 for his version (well done!)
 

Top_Gun

Aspiring Commoner
Mar 5, 2014
159
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#20
To add to that, I feel like having the road be kinda roughed-up right in front of the Gate doesn't make much sense. Right now it doesn't exactly look like what you'd expect outside the front door of Gondor's capital city.