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More ranks with world edit

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by barteldvn, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. barteldvn

    barteldvn Foreman
    Foreman

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    Hmmm I don think it's possible to crash servers these days any more with only 70 000 block operations.
    I think it might only be possible to crash the server when you really try to. Which again asks the question if artists that have worked here can be trusted?

    And I'm allready suggesting limits to the area artists can work in and the amount of blocks they can edit in one go. Also artists only need a few of the commands, they don't really need brushes or anything. Further more I like this idea:

    I think that that could be a way to make sure that builders are truely trustworthy.

    I am just saying that pretty much ever build server out there has world edit for their main building force, so why shouldn't we if we limit it as much to make sure there can't be much griefing done. I think the risk is worth it.
     
  2. Lindolas

    Lindolas Aspiring Commoner

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    How frequent does the server do backups? If somone messes up something with WE, there's always a backup to roll back to right?
     
  3. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    A senior Artist is called a Foreman
     
  4. Darki

    Darki Designer
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    They have already made the mistake of giving me access to world edit.....
     
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  5. Miiil

    Miiil Enforcer
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    Well, the total amount of blocks it would have been 1 254 400 000 000 (70 000 x 70 000 x 256) if the operation would have succeeded. A whooping 1.2 Trillion blocks or 1254 Billion Blocks.
     
    #25 Miiil, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  6. mapthor

    mapthor Aspiring Commoner

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    This is what I think about all of this

    • Artists should not have WE powers but foremen should
    I'm not hating on the artists here, but they really don't need WE. The main point of the artist rank is to help build on the server and fix derps. They're not designers who need WE. And trust is also a bug issue with this. Some commoner may apply for artist just for WE and destroy the map, which could potentially happen.

    Foremen should have WE powers though. Foremen are the players who run the jobs and are trusted more.

    I think WE should only be a staff member
    power. (Designer+)
     
  7. reycraft

    reycraft Aspiring Commoner

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    So are you saying that foremen should become staff members?
     
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  8. mapthor

    mapthor Aspiring Commoner

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    Sorry for the confusion, but no. I think they would benefit from WE only because they are the players who run the jobs and it could be a helpful tool to them
     
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  9. Fireinferno13

    Fireinferno13 One of Us
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    Lol my bad thx, corrected in the original post
     
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  10. Tyranystrasz

    Tyranystrasz Designer
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    Darki is the MCME equivalent of Kim Jong Un, but at least he doesn't launch misilles, yet.
     
    #30 Tyranystrasz, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  11. barteldvn

    barteldvn Foreman
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    Well with those areas where people could world edit, that wouldn't be able to happen (70 000x70 000) because it's larger than the size of the map and I'm assuming those areas could not be much bigger than 1000x1000 at most, and like I said limits should be made obviously.

    And there have been inexperienced designers that just got world edit for the first time, looking at bwot, he hasn't crashed/ destroyed anything... I think.

    I've seen many artists these days work on big projects, and some designers on little ones. It really depends on what they're doing. For example Napoleon has done some big halls in moria, I'd also mention Jesia and Patrick, but they both have world edit now. Yet still they did some big halls just by hand and having to ask designers to copy, paste, flip and set certain things.

    Some people are concerned about whether this would make an artist as powerfull as a designer, I guess it would in that they can do world edit, but they'd be first of all more limited, wouldn't have acces to voxel, still aren't meant to be project leaders like designers are and still should listen to what a designer says. They would not have the ability to /kick, permission to the staff world and whatever permissions designers have.

    Mcme is almost like a buildteam, attempting one of the biggest projects in minecraft, can't we give ourselves a bit more help by giving artists the ability that all buildteams and build servers have these days?
     
    #31 barteldvn, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  12. BWOT

    BWOT Head Designer
    Staff Member Head Designer Designer

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    I like how I am always categorized as the unexperienced designer
     
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  13. barteldvn

    barteldvn Foreman
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    Inexperienced in the way that you didn't know how to use world edit.
     
  14. ooitsbirdo

    ooitsbirdo Yellow flower puncher

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    Get used to it hahaha
     
  15. superlolster

    superlolster Dirt Conaisseur

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    Who said he does now know now to use world edit???
     
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  16. barteldvn

    barteldvn Foreman
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    My personal opinion about giving artists world edit:

    Positives:
    - Faster progress
    - Stimulates originality
    - Would make Moria a more doable project
    - Artists could do (more) bigger projects
    - Designers don't have to do we for artists anymore
    - and a few more

    Negatives:
    - Would make griefing more easy, in a way


    There are a few other problems, mainly the fact that it's hard to limit the artists permissions. I'm not sure how'd that work out and that it could be a bit hard to check what exactly is done.

    For the griefing part, I kinda have to dissagree, this griefing may be more effective, but can also be forced to be undone and FAWE would have a build-in backup system that would be able to rollback actions, as well can be used together with other protection plugins that have such features, which might also be used on MCME.

    Some other ideas were to only give world edit to foremen, which I don't want at all to encourage, since I want all builder ranks to have world edit and not only the higher ones. Maybe foreman could have less limits than artists, but not even that is really needed.

    So that would leave one option to me for implementing world edit:
    An artist purge where all artists and foreman too I guess, get evaluated on activity, loyalty and how mature they are.
    I honestly don't see any disadvantage, since the griefing would be pretty much as easily fixable as it would if it's done by hand.
     
  17. TI_020601

    TI_020601 Aspiring Commoner

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    How would you test someone's loyalty, it's hard to measure and is easily faked. While the griefing would be easy to undo it's easier to just avoid any additional means of grief, artists can all ready place and/or destroy blocks any where they want to, I'm not saying they all would, just they all could.
     
  18. Eldar_Telcontar

    Eldar_Telcontar Dirt Conaisseur
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    It would seem from this thread that there needs to be a re-evaluation of the ranks of Artist, Foreman, and Designer, and what each of these 3 ranks bring to the server. What is their purpose, and is that being delivered in the current meta?

    From first hand experience in Dol Amroth I can say that the old roles have changed a bit: the line between Designer and Foreman has "blurred" somewhat recently, with Foremen being delegated tasks (such as entire areas of a city) that usually would be left to a higher rank. Designers keep the overall project under control and keep the vision of that in mind which is important.

    Artists still perform a key task which has not really changed - they are the main workforce of regular builders on the server. They also have more power than they have ever had on MCME already, and personally I think giving them WE is a step too far.

    Maybe then it is time to give Foremen more permissions to suit their needs? Or at least consider it, or test it out? :D What are your thoughts?
     
  19. ryttyr

    ryttyr Yellow flower puncher

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    So wait.. your problem with this idea lies in giving artists more power? I hope I'm mistaken but are you fearing some Artist uprising or something? Because that's the impression I get when I read this and as an Artist I feel a bit hurt that you may feel that way so I hope I'm mistaken. I hope I just completely misunderstood the intent of your statement.
     
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  20. superlolster

    superlolster Dirt Conaisseur

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    an artist uprising lel, damn its so annoying that i agree with both sides on this, i think artists could use we but i only know a handful of artists, so i dunno how they would handle we, but the ones ik i would trust, but then there is the problem of grief, but if designers r trusted why can't artists and foremen be trusted, were all human at the end of the day, but like eldar said if we were to give out we permissions then maybe there should be a re-evaluation of what the ranks stand for and do, im sorta giving an outsiders perspective on this as obviously im not an artist+, and my opinion probs doesn't help but ive watched this debate for too long to not have an input now.
     
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