On Hold Rivendell

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BWOT

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#1
It is definitely way too early to fully decide but if you want to talk about it, leave your comments here so they are not forgotten.

Quotes from the book mentioning Rivendell:

"Therefore ere the Third Age was ended the Elves perceived that the Ring of Sapphire was with Elrond, in the fair valley of Rivendell, upon whose house the stars of heaven most brightly shone;"

“In all the days of the Third Age, after the fall of Gil-galad, Master Elrond abode in Imladris, and he gathered there many Elves, and other folk of wisdom and power from among all the kindreds of Middle-earth, and he preserved through many lives of Men the memory of all that had been fair; and the house of Elrond was a refuge for the weary and the oppressed, and a treasury of good counsel and wise lore. In that house were harboured the Heirs of Isildur, in childhood and old age, because of the kinship of their blood with Elrond himself, and because he knew in his wisdom that one should come of their line to whom a great part was appointed in the last deeds of that Age. And until that time came the shards of Elendil's sword were given into the keeping of Elrond, when the days of the Dúnedain darkened and they became a wandering people.”

"His house was perfect whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, nor a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley."

"A little sleep does a great cure in the house of Elrond."

"Weariness fell from him soon in that house, and he had many a merry jest and dance, early and late, with the elves of the valley."

"It's a big house this, and very peculiar. Always a bit more to discover, and no knowing what you'll find round a corner. And Elves, sir! Elves here, and Elves there! Some like kings, terrible and splendid; and some as merry as children. And the music and the singing..."

"Sam led him along several passages and down many steps and out into a high garden above the steep bank of the river. He found his friends sitting in a porch on the side of the house looking east. Shadows had fallen in the valley below, but there was still a light on the faces of the mountains far above. The air was warm. The sound of running and falling water was loud, and the evening was filled with a faint scent of trees and flowers, as if summer still lingered in Elrond's gardens."

"Evil things do not come into this valley... We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark."

"This is the Hall of Fire ... here you will hear many songs and tales - if you can keep awake. But except on high days it usually stands empty and quiet, and people come here who wish for peace, and thought. There is always a fire here, all the year round, but there is little other light."

"Time doesn't seem to pass here: it just is. A remarkable place altogether."

Here are drawing and paintings Tolkien did:





 

ryttyr

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#4
What is this thread even about? What is it you wish to discuss?
 

ryttyr

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#6
May I just point out that Beorn's house also was called just a house but was described visually as several buildings with both the main house, outhouses, barnhouses and if I recall right a couple guest houses so why couldn't Elrond's house be made up of several buildings as well?
Besides, movie Rivendell is one of the most iconic locations in all of the movies and it has a very distinct look that most players will be expecting to see. Sure we could make the main building look more like Tolkien's drawings, I'm thinking something like in the first image, but if we didn't include the style of the movies we're making both the movies and a lot of new players a great injustice.

Either way, I believe a Rivendell revamp would be fairly far off either way so by the time we'll get to it we might have changed our minds about it again.
 
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barteldvn

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#7
May I just point out that Beorn's house also was called just a house but was described visually as several buildings with both the main house, outhouses, barnhouses and if I recall right a couple guest houses so why couldn't Elrond's house be made up of several buildings as well? Besides, movie Rivendell is one of the most iconic locations in all of the movies and it has a very distinct look that most players will be expecting to see. Sure we could make the main building look more like Tolkien's drawings, I'm thinking something like the last image, but if we didn't include the style of the movies we're making both the movies and a lot of new players a great injustice.
Either way, I believe a Rivendell revamp would be fairly far off either way so by the time we'll get to it we might have changed our minds about it again.
Except the general layout and shape our Rivendel doesn't look that much like the movies, I think players would rather see a good looking build than a weird looking copy, Have we ever received many complaints about things not looking like the movie? No, but we've also not really tried, I'd prefer building stuff more according to the books sometimes, it gives you more freedom (since a book can't show you how it exactly looks) and also makes stuff more interesting. Now mind you, I do think we should keep the Rivendell thing for later.
 

Lindolas

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#8
Was just reading about Rivendell on wiki Rivendell - Wikipedia

Under "Inspiration" is also this: "The homes, including the waterfalls flowing beneath them, bear a striking similarity to Beatenberg which is located in the same region."

When I googled "Beatenberg" I found this image.

465788623_5a025ca6bc_b.jpg


Looks familiar to the movie version :)

Anyway, the layout in Tolkien's drawing is a bit diffrent but maybe he had this style in mind when he was drawing Elrond's house. At least the entrance to the house looks like there could be arches looking like the ones on the image above.
 

BWOT

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#9
I agree that there should be more than just one building, but what we have now is around 3-4 big large buildings. Not one primary, and then maybe stables, small watchtower and etc...
 

RubenPieterMark

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#10
Was just reading about Rivendell on wiki Rivendell - Wikipedia

Under "Inspiration" is also this: "The homes, including the waterfalls flowing beneath them, bear a striking similarity to Beatenberg which is located in the same region."

When I googled "Beatenberg" I found this image.

View attachment 10776

Looks familiar to the movie version :)

Anyway, the layout in Tolkien's drawing is a bit diffrent but maybe he had this style in mind when he was drawing Elrond's house. At least the entrance to the house looks like there could be arches looking like the ones on the image above.
Owh I've actually been in both places :eek:
It didn't really make me think of Rivendell when I was in Beatenberg, mostly because of its location right against a cliff, instead of the middle of the valley. But it could be an amazing source for on top of the small cliff overlooking the Bruinen.
Another issue with current Rivendell is imo the color scheme; it doesn't really look cosy or 'homely', but it's all tones of grey. Some more yellow and wood would fix that.
 

ryttyr

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#11
Owh I've actually been in both places :eek:
It didn't really make me think of Rivendell when I was in Beatenberg, mostly because of its location right against a cliff, instead of the middle of the valley. But it could be an amazing source for on top of the small cliff overlooking the Bruinen.
Another issue with current Rivendell is imo the color scheme; it doesn't really look cosy or 'homely', but it's all tones of grey. Some more yellow and wood would fix that.
But stone is what it's made out of in the book if I recall right and it's a rather logical building material considering it's location.
 

QuantaCube

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#12
Its important to consider tolkien's drawings are not necessarily canon, as they were drawn for the hobbit, and tolkien's views on many things certainly did change going into lord of the rings! Also , we are not only limited to tolkien's interpretation of buildings- its just his thoughts on what it could look like, not exactly what it looked like.

Rivendell is done- there is no real need to change it further unless in the very far future.
 

Glov

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#13
We are not only limited to tolkien's interpretation of buildings- its just his thoughts on what it could look like, not exactly what it looked like.
True, you don't have to copy his drawings block for block. But the descriptions in the Fellowship are rather explicit and do not allow too much wiggle room insofar as interpretation of layout. The movie's version of Rivendell, as well as mcme's are undeniably non-canon.
Furthermore, regarding Rivendell itself, Tolkien did not change much between the Hobbit and LOTR, The Hobbit was rather vague in describing Rivendell, and LOTR only solidified what little he had already presented.
 

Lindolas

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#14
The general idea is in the images and all the details are left for us to do.
Here's another drawing:

Rivendell looking west, unfinished sketch.

ef8154f13856bd6e9f329d655c03df7a.jpg
 

BWOT

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#15
Its important to consider tolkien's drawings are not necessarily canon, as they were drawn for the hobbit, and tolkien's views on many things certainly did change going into lord of the rings! Also , we are not only limited to tolkien's interpretation of buildings- its just his thoughts on what it could look like, not exactly what it looked like.

Rivendell is done- there is no real need to change it further unless in the very far future.
I just want to remind all: what the first couple of lines about Minecraft MiddleEarth’s goal
 

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