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Unrestricted access to Fly-mod by Non Staff Members

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by pheonixsang, Sep 24, 2014.

?
  1. Yes, everyone except for Oathbreakers should have access

    48.1%
  2. Yes, but only Rangers and Artists should have access

    11.5%
  3. No, non-staff should not have access to fly-mod

    40.4%
  1. pheonixsang

    pheonixsang Yellow flower puncher

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    Title of the post says it all. Lets open a public discussion on why only staff are allowed to have fly-mod, and why Rangers, Artists, and maybe even Adventurers should be allowed to have access to it.

    Anyone who responds is asked to back up their accusations of "it would cause massive lag" with proof.

    For example, on another server I currently frequently visit 100% of the playerbase is given access to flymod and it experiences little to no lag whatsoever. This is while everyone is just flying around, or voxelling, or worldediting.

    I can see the point of not giving it to adventurers as they are not trusted members of the community yet. But artists and rangers would and could greatly be benefiting from this addition to their rank.

    For anyone that inevitably responds with "why do they need it, they get along just fine without it right now" I ask you, then whats the harm of letting us have it.

    This topic has been brought up multiple times in the past and always shot down quickly by staff with the opinion of "No, and non-staff will never have access to fly mod because it would cause too much lag for the server."

    All I'm asking in this thread is for intelligent responses from both sides as to why and why not we as non-staff should or should not have access to flymod. Anyone against or for the discussion backup their statements with proof.
     
  2. DSESGH

    DSESGH Dirt Conaisseur

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    I would say it's because we don't need it. If a staff member has a large project, such as Ithilien or Osgiliath, it is very beneficial for them to be able to get around that area quickly. Faster transportation helps the staff finish projects faster. However, Artists, for one, really only work on houses, stores, or other small builds. In that case, having flymod permissions would be quite unnecessary. Rangers and Adventurers don't need flymod either, because they don't have build perms in the first place. Therefore, flymod would only be used by non-staff ranks for exploring, and being able to zip past everything on your way to a destination kills the Middle-earthy atmosphere. As the saying goes, "Getting there is half the fun."

    Then, the "why not" argument is generally not used on this server. For example, why not let build staff have permissions for prism? Because they don't need those permissions. All staff are trusted, and it would not cause any harm if they had prism permissions. However, it does not fit with their duties, so they are not able to do that.

    Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be opposed to this change if it did happen; I'm just saying that it is unnecessary.
     
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  3. Ghundra

    Ghundra Yellow flower puncher
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    If you can write a well written response as to why they need it then I'd consider it but other than that there's really no purpose for adventurer, ranger, and other non-staff ranks to use fly mods when they already have creative flight and teleportation.
     
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  4. Dallen

    Dallen Developer
    Developer

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    Well ghun, you won't be making the sesition anyway, unless q has allowed you to SSH into the server which I highly doubt. As enforcer you should enforce the rules not try to make new ones.
     
  5. Ghundra

    Ghundra Yellow flower puncher
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    I did not mean I would be the one giving final verdict on whether these people do or do not get fly mod it was more so my own opinion on the topic.
     
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  6. TheSpeedy_

    TheSpeedy_ Dirt Conaisseur

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    I would like to remind all players that a pattern has been emerging, in which players are wording their arguments, opinions, and thoughts in such a way, as to intimidate others, by creating the illusion that their words, opinions, and arguments hold more weight than others. This is a discussion, a dialogue. To suggest, regardless of intent, that you have more power than another is flawed and is wrong. Staff Members should not be placed above the general community, in the terms that they too are members of the community, who have been trusted with more responsibilities and duties. This does not set them apart from any other, and ought to be held to a higher standard of accountability for their actions. Any Staff member that, purposely and knowingly, lords their position over others is not to be accepted, and disciplinary actions need to be taken should this occur. These types of discussions are important resource to any community, because it allows for the community to voice their opinions and ideas in an open manner. The idea that intimidation and scare tactics might be used by some to deter the community for sharing their opinions and ideas is a frightening thought, and reality. There is a proper way to share and counter people's ideas, but to use Ranks as a means to create the illusion of power over others is wrong. Moderation is not censorship, nor is it a means to force one's ideology onto others. Moderation is a tool to remove content that poses a threat to others and/or violates the TOS and Rules, not a means to force others to succumb to a singular entities' views. These practices are detrimental to server communications and atmosphere. It is acceptable to be of the perspective that your argument, ideas, or opinions are correct, but there is proper way to argue your position. I would like to remind all players, Staff or non-Staff, that it is okay to share your opinions, it is not acceptable to attack one another for having differing opinions, thoughts, or arguments. In any debate, everyone is on equal ground, and in order to win, you have to defend and strengthen your platform with facts, not logical fallacies. Emotional appeals are not fact, nor do they help your platform. Please be more respectful when addressing one another, as we are a community and will act like one.

    Thank you,
    -speed
     
    #6 TheSpeedy_, Sep 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  7. muteberlin

    muteberlin Yellow flower puncher
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    [​IMG]
     
  8. rcpopcornman

    rcpopcornman Aspiring Commoner

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  9. Glov

    Glov Dirt Conaisseur
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    I feel the question shouldn't be "why should we have it?" ,but rather, "why shouldn't we have it?". I'm really interested to know the answers to the latter. And although i did hear before that it would cause lag, i would (like phe said) like to see some actual proof of that? (srsly im curious)
     
  10. wyliewylie

    wyliewylie Aspiring Commoner

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    Whats the point, we have /fly already?
     
  11. Dallen

    Dallen Developer
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    The more chunks the server needs to load at any given time adds greatly to the server side lag, like block place and brake (this is bad for a build server). I propose that adventurers up have fly mod but have increments of top speed. This means that adventures can better experience the server without adding extreme amounts of lag.
     
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  12. q220

    q220 Eru Iluvatar
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    This, and creative flight already is a major improvement compared to not flying. I'm sure you don't want to go back to the days where flight wasn't even allowed for non-staff.
     
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  13. Ardelenia

    Ardelenia Yellow flower puncher

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    #bringbackmagiccarpet
    please no
     
  14. Wollip666

    Wollip666 Yellow flower puncher

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    I don't see removing flight as a solution to anything.

    Also, as someone who doesn't use any mods at all I don't think I could give an credible response, but whats the point on having fly mod when we have the ability to fly already? Is it just to fly faster? or am I missing somthing.
     
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  15. Wodleth

    Wodleth Designer
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    terraforming is a lot faster if you can fly faster

    My opinion is that pretty much only buildmods need flymod for all the terraforming, I only use it for that and derping around. It's too fast to be used while building or touring :l
    And I think enforcers have it because the other staff have it, but do you guys really need it?
     
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  16. Finrod_Amandil

    Finrod_Amandil Head Designer
    Staff Member Head Designer Designer Donor Media Team

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    I dont think non-staff should have access to flymods. I argument that with mutiple reasons of which some or of a concrete and practical kind and also some that would well be debatable and thus are my opinion.

    1. There'd be some opportunities where it is just annoying having everyone flying around at hyperspeed, especially tours. The tour would not look anymore like a dense group of people walking along the road but much more like a swarm of angry bees. The known and appreciated "adventuring" feeling is completely gone. Also it'd be hard for Rangers moderating the tour and keeping the group together. Ikr this may already be a problem with the current situation, but Flymods would make it even worse.
    2. "How to get flymod working?" Sooo many people will ask that over and over, even though its a "real" question that deserves being answered we could prevent ourselves from typing like hell for another newbie question by just not allowing flymods.
    3. Many more questions will come up whether we could give green light for using other mods by just argueing "it would not hurt anyone."
    4. This permission is part of the bundle of staff tools and was only introduced to make using the other tools easier and more comfortable. It was not involved to get access to a completely new standalone feature. In other words, we dont fly fast with flymod because we like flying fast, but rather as it makes voxelling easier. Giving it to non-staff would mean theres no real use and purpose for it.
    5. I ofc agree with speeders statement that staff members arent "better" than others. Still, being staff means, not only when being Enforcer, that you are in charge of control and if needed moderate any others players actions and thus staff members ARE an authority higher than non-staff. This is true and no problem as long as staffs dont start bragging about their rank and intimidate others by abusing tools and perms given to them. If this is taken care of, in my opinion, its also ok if a staff has access to certain stuff just as a privilege. Do Valar really need the /slap command? No, its just a privilege and noone ever questioned it.
     
    #16 Finrod_Amandil, Sep 25, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
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  17. TheSpeedy_

    TheSpeedy_ Dirt Conaisseur

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    My comments in no way reflect an opinion here regarding use of fly mods, however, is in response to an observed habit that seems to have manifested amongst some community members, when discussions such as this one, sway their opinions and thoughts in such a manner for the purpose of creating an illusion of power over others. This isn't the first occurrence of people in positions of responsibility, it is a developed pattern that needs to be nipped in the butt.
     
  18. FireFuss

    FireFuss Dirt Conaisseur
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    Once all the plugins are updated and we move the server up to 1.8 this will be kinda irrelevant. Its not exactly like flymod, but in 1.8 you can use the sprint button to fly pretty fast. It doesn't affect your up and down travel speed, but the movement speed boost is quite nice.
     
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  19. gigo09

    gigo09 Yellow flower puncher

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    Is it like, a significant boost in speed? Because you can already press *cntrl* to fly a bit faster in 1.7 but it's not the significant.
     
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  20. CEFKILLA96

    CEFKILLA96 Yellow flower puncher

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    I've lived without for the past 2 and a bit years on the server and guides honestly don't really need it so meh. #DramaM8
    But that forum tag would be nice...
    And /put
    shhhh