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Your Opinion on New Moria

In What Way Should We Build Moria on the New Map?

  • Copy from old map, just change the scale

    Votes: 4 9.5%
  • Total revamp of Moria

    Votes: 37 88.1%
  • Who needs Moria?

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
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wyliewylie

Hardcore MCME-er
One thing though. The Misty mountains are only so wide.
If Moria was longer, wouldn't that kind of break immersion if it was noticeable?
 

Top_Gun

Experienced Member
Since you're underground the whole way and don't have any external reference points, I can't see it ever being noticeable, unless the design has the player walking in a straight line down a hallway for thousands of blocks, and that's pretty easy to avoid.

At least for me, the real reason to incorporate warp trickery into the new Moria isn't linear distance nearly so much as depth. Things like the abyssal chasm under the Bridge, or the insane height of the Endless Stair, or even just the number of occupied levels described in the books, physically can't be done justice within a strict 256-block build limit. You can see this on the current build, where the path from the 21st Hall down to the 2nd Hall winds up heading upwards for a time, despite the latter being seven levels below the former. Having that extra vertical space to work with will really help establish the vast scale of Moria. Plus, since everything is below-ground to begin with, one can use those sorts of tricks without leaving any visible physical trace of them.
 

nevik45

Hardcore MCME-er
One thing though. The Misty mountains are only so wide.
If Moria was longer, wouldn't that kind of break immersion if it was noticeable?
Moria is not just a single straight tunnel all the way through. If it were, I'm sure you could notice, but as it's not, the twists and turns would throw off all sensation of distance and there'd be no way to know it was too long unless you were informed by a player.
 

wyliewylie

Hardcore MCME-er
Moria is not just a single straight tunnel all the way through. If it were, I'm sure you could notice, but as it's not, the twists and turns would throw off all sensation of distance and there'd be no way to know it was too long unless you were informed by a player.
true
 

wheelleee

Involved Member
Allthough that is absolutely amazing you have to keep in mind that that mountain goes from 0 to 256 and spans (what appears to be) several hundred blocks. If you were to load this up in a world it would just look like plains with a slight incline. Not a majestic mountain. 50% of the way it looks is in the way the picture is taken :'(.

With this in mind we can't do something like this on our map. Perhaps we'll be able to replicate mountains like that on a smaller scale. Though that takes a lot of work, time and dedication.
It actually isn't plains with a slight incline :p I understand there is usually a steeper incline in real life, but still that is pretty steep. Also, in real life, most mountain ranges have steep sides, but the mountains sandwiched in between the other mountains bordering plains usually have slopes on a higher elevation and aren't as steep. Just an fyi. And the guy who made that is actually one of the most experienced people with world painter. Here is some of his other work. And this isn't just the angle that makes the mountains look steep, they actually are steep here:

A few of his cliffs
 

yodog_117

Experienced Member
I think we have a new texture pack for Moria, maybe a dwarven pack. It could also be useful when we eventually make the Erebor, and maybe some towns/cities in the Iron Hills and the Blue Mountains.
 

Portalrules333

Hardcore MCME-er
It actually isn't plains with a slight incline :p I understand there is usually a steeper incline in real life, but still that is pretty steep. Also, in real life, most mountain ranges have steep sides, but the mountains sandwiched in between the other mountains bordering plains usually have slopes on a higher elevation and aren't as steep. Just an fyi. And the guy who made that is actually one of the most experienced people with world painter. Here is some of his other work. And this isn't just the angle that makes the mountains look steep, they actually are steep here:

A few of his cliffs
Are this guys maps open for download, by any chance?:eek:
 

wyliewylie

Hardcore MCME-er
I think we have a new texture pack for Moria, maybe a dwarven pack. It could also be useful when we eventually make the Erebor, and maybe some towns/cities in the Iron Hills and the Blue Mountains.
No, we dont need that. Most dawrven architecture is just stone blocks anyway, nothing special.
Plus theres plenty of blocks that can be reskinned for a "dwarfy" block and plenty of more blocks to be added into minecraft as well.
 

NinjaPotafo

Builds trees by hand
euhm. This is kind of a really old post, but I'd like to throw in my two-pence on the subject. I personally LOVE Moria (the current one). I think the build quality is crap (no offense to those who built it), I think it's too one-directional, being basically built around the road through, I think there is nowhere near enough detail work, some parts are unrealistic (why would there still be lava and ore in the main forge?), and I think they didn't use enough lore when they were building it. But I love it because it's basically the oldest build on the server, and shows how far we've come as a community. I'd like to preserve some of that at least in the revamp of Moria. Maybe just pick the best room (in my opinion, the 21st Hall has the most detail, but could still use far more) and copy that into the new Moria. And I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate because of this, but I think that this should be mainly a job for the Artists and Designers, because they have already proven themselves to be worthy and capable builders. There should be jobs, yes, because a group of roughly 20 people (correct me if I'm wrong please) can't handle building all of Moria, but mainly it should be handled by those with experience. The main layout and planning should be determined by the Valar and the Designers, then we should have all of the Artists come and work on it alongside the staff in order to achieve the most work in the least amount of time. Designers not actively working on Moria should run jobs for those Adventurers who want to participate.

My main point, however, is that I would like to see one or maybe two rooms from the old Moria used in the new one. When it was built, Moria was the best and grandest project on the entire server. If we are going to redo it and change it all up, we should not only try to honor the work on the original, but we should spare no effort in making it into an extraordinary build. If we redo it, we do so to make it better, so let's make it so. This time, let's make it an entire city, not just a series of tunnels. Let's do it right this time.

The last two points I'd like to make before I close:
First, I rather liked the idea (I don't know who proposed it earlier on this thread) of building it in it's living state and then ruining. This has, in the areas it has been done in, worked extremely well for Osgiliath, and I believe we could achieve the same result on Moria.

Second, I liked the idea of tping the person at the entrance and exit. But couldn't we technically (if we're not using it) just load a ton of new terrain on the old map and then use that for Moria? It would fit in there, it wouldn't be on a different world like the nether, and it wouldn't take up random space in the ocean (sorry fin, I like the idea, but for the sake of accuracy, I disagree). We could just keep the old map in use, or at least that section of it, and just tp them back out seamlessly once they're all the way through. They'd never notice the difference, especially if we built a blind of the surrounding terrain.

Anyways, sorry for the really long post, just ever since I joined MCME I've always looked forward to that fabled day in the future when we would "someday redo Moria" and it will be even better than it is now. I've been dreaming about this project since the day I first toured through the city. Thanks for reading!

-Ninja
 

Finrod_Amandil

hon. Head Designer
Staff member
Designer
Moderator
Note: we haven't planned literally anything among Staff for new moria yet (besides that it will be with 99.9% probability with a kind of teleport), thus all statements are my opinion.

I think the build quality is crap (no offense to those who built it)
No need to apologise for that statement. Its true and thats well known and overall agreed to, though that still does not blame the builders (beside for the unrealistic things you mentioned) as there were just not the same technical possibilities back then.
I'd like to preserve some of that at least in the revamp of Moria. Maybe just pick the best room (in my opinion, the 21st Hall has the most detail, but could still use far more) and copy that into the new Moria.
The idea is good and worth considering, but I don't think it'll be such an iconic location. I could imagine taking over some smaller rooms and placing them in historically newer areas of Moria and argue that these rooms aren't finished yet and thus don't look that good yet. Like that we keep the old build in memory as a nice side fact on new moria and we still don't have a weirdly intrusive building with unmatching building style (it is to be expected that we will have some new textures for new moria)
And I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate because of this, but I think that this should be mainly a job for the Artists and Designers
There will be much work for every rank. This won't be much different than Osgo where there are many ways to involve, your own quote: "let's make it an entire city, not just a series of tunnels" A city needs houses and I don't think dwarven houses can't be built in Freebuild style as Osgo and MT. And the tunnels which we'll have plenty off too are just the dwarven kind of road; an artist or designer comes up with some designs and Adventurers can copy that over all Moria.
achieve the most work in the least amount of time
No need in haste. Rather make it last longer but make it so nice that we don't have to redo it two years later again.
First, I rather liked the idea (I don't know who proposed it earlier on this thread) of building it in it's living state and then ruining. This has, in the areas it has been done in, worked extremely well for Osgiliath, and I believe we could achieve the same result on Moria.
Actually something that bugs me on old moria is that it is too ruined in some parts (e.g. Chamber of Light). Moria is abandoned since around 1800 TA, so no maintenance since 1200 years. Guys, stuff does not fall in ruins cause thats an elementary natural rule! Most of the cities that actually are ruined (e.g. Fornost or Tharbad) fell in ruin due to weather, may it be the yearly changing temperatures making materials fragile, snow pressing it down, rain, maybe even wind is a cause. Or in case of Tharbad a river flooding the city. But Moria is undergorund, has rather constant temperature, no rain nor snow. Ofc theres the goblins, but why would those go around an abandoned place just randomly destroying stuff nobody cares about. They'd do some wooden stuff as seen in Goblin Town, but no reason to tediously destroying bare stone builds. There was akind of war between the dwarves and goblins, okay, but you can't really use machinery like Trebuchets as in Osgo. So, Moria won't even have to be ruined too much.
But couldn't we technically (if we're not using it) just load a ton of new terrain on the old map and then use that for Moria? It would fit in there, it wouldn't be on a different world like the nether, and it wouldn't take up random space in the ocean (sorry fin, I like the idea, but for the sake of accuracy, I disagree). We could just keep the old map in use, or at least that section of it, and just tp them back out seamlessly once they're all the way through. They'd never notice the difference, especially if we built a blind of the surrounding terrain.
The reason why I proposed placing it into Belegaer was as it may be difficult making an as seemless as possible teleport thing to another world. Only warp to plotworld once from the main world and then warp around in the same world, you'll see theres a difference. If it technically doesnt matter we would rather place it on an entirely new map or on PlotWorld. No need to mess with the Old Map.
Anyways, sorry for the really long post, just ever since I joined MCME I've always looked forward to that fabled day in the future when we would "someday redo Moria" and it will be even better than it is now. I've been dreaming about this project since the day I first toured through the city. Thanks for reading!
Many people can't wait for Moria 2.0, me neither. Good that you brought it up again, though most of the questions already appeared once before the forum wipe.
 
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