Suggestion Road revamp Gondor

[NicTheFifth]

Best MCME members,

With our recent (well, couple of years) improvements to the rp, there have been great improvements and fixes. One of the ways that this is most visible is the roads, yet most of Gondor is still using the old roads, which still have the old mix and bad integration in the terrain. So, my suggestion is a job based project to fix all of the roads, which would greatly increase Gondor's quality, without being too invasive (also more jobs, yay!).

With this revamp, I'd like to maybe ask for a more detailed look at guides at crossroads. This would add some level of immersion and also allow for more fun exploring, as you can decide on a whim "Oh, I want to go to x" after seeing it on a sign. It is a small addition, but it will have big results I think.

I hope that you will agree with me and see value in this and if not, that we can have a good discussion!

 

[NelmanBlack]

It does bring up the constant question of whether it should be our focus instead of something 'more important'. A project like this can take as much time or as little time as we can want it to and I think it is worthwhile especially with Gondor being our most developed area, as well as giving smaller areas that are almost never visited some action.

I would love to see Fellowship finished first especially with Mordor on the horizon but as you said with it being a job by job project it could be worthwhile and have progress without pulling too much motivation like other projects we have at the moment.

All and all a cheeky non-answer

 

[TheStephen]

It's an interesting idea, and if I remember rightly, Maski had been doing something like this when he was a foreman, particularly around Belfalas and between Rohan and MT. It does open a can of worms though: why not do this for Eriador and Rohan, as the Fellowship also travel through there and the roads are also still old style. Then you enter the slippery slope of not doing just the roads, but also the bits around them. You then end up with changes/additions that aren't necessarily well thought out as they've not been part of a considered, planned project proposal.

My view is that revamps should be targeted at the oldest areas first and work through those locations to the newer areas. There simply aren't enough builders to maintain all parts of the map at oncee. Eriador has been largely ignored for the last 7 years at least (I'm not really counting Lond Daer as it's more Enedwaith than the main part of Eriador), whereas Gondor has had work on it for the last 8(?) years. There needs to be the acceptance that one day Gondor will be the most outdated region on the server, in the same way that Eriador is at the moment.

I've been here nearly 4 years, and am yet to see an entirely new project started. Revamps should not be our focus.

 

[Mershy]

Pointless at the moment plus we dont have enough people to stretch.

 

[rwyland]

I would be more willing to look into this if we didn't have so many projects open and we were looking for work. But since we have 7 or 8 projects going currently, 2 of which are intended to be some of if not the last projects in Gondor, we should focus on completing those before doing any kind of revamp.
On another note, we have this unfortunate habit of redoing small sections then using it as an excuse to redoing larger and larger sections. Under no circumstances should we be redoing anything major in Gondor for any reason for a very long time.

 

[NicTheFifth]

It's an interesting idea, and if I remember rightly, Maski had been doing something like this when he was a foreman, particularly around Belfalas and between Rohan and MT. It does open a can of worms though: why not do this for Eriador and Rohan, as the Fellowship also travel through there and the roads are also still old style. Then you enter the slippery slope of not doing just the roads, but also the bits around them. You then end up with changes/additions that aren't necessarily well thought out as they've not been part of a considered, planned project proposal.

My view is that revamps should be targeted at the oldest areas first and work through those locations to the newer areas. There simply aren't enough builders to maintain all parts of the map at oncee. Eriador has been largely ignored for the last 7 years at least (I'm not really counting Lond Daer as it's more Enedwaith than the main part of Eriador), whereas Gondor has had work on it for the last 8(?) years. There needs to be the acceptance that one day Gondor will be the most outdated region on the server, in the same way that Eriador is at the moment.

I've been here nearly 4 years, and am yet to see an entirely new project started. Revamps should not be our focus.

So, as for this Stpehen. Maski had started yes, and as for why not Eriador and Rohan, because Gondor is well... one area, Eriador and Rohan are separate areas, also Rohan is currently still its separate rp (also the roads are sorta well blended into the terrain, whilst Gondor's aren't), so no real sense in working there, and Eriador is too disconnected.

As for the creep, that's why the project I propose should be only the roads. NO expansion to builds, make it planned and stick to the plan, no creep. Also, I agree with 'the revamps shouldn't be the focus', however I do feel that getting people to do stuff, if for a short while, remember, we don't know how long we are to wait on things, is a good thing. Now, as for why this should be an exception, this is something everyone can do, it's a job project, something which I don't know how much exist off in current projects with yet higher and higher standards.

 

[Wyattrox03]

I would be more willing to look into this if we didn't have so many projects open and we were looking for work. But since we have 7 or 8 projects going currently, 2 of which are intended to be some of if not the last projects in Gondor, we should focus on completing those before doing any kind of revamp.
On another note, we have this unfortunate habit of redoing small sections then using it as an excuse to redoing larger and larger sections. Under no circumstances should we be redoing anything major in Gondor for any reason for a very long time.

Rwyland sempai let me do ittttt I've been asking forevvvvvvvver . ROAD REVAMP TIME BABY

 

[Wyattrox03]

It's an interesting idea, and if I remember rightly, Maski had been doing something like this when he was a foreman, particularly around Belfalas and between Rohan and MT. It does open a can of worms though: why not do this for Eriador and Rohan, as the Fellowship also travel through there and the roads are also still old style. Then you enter the slippery slope of not doing just the roads, but also the bits around them. You then end up with changes/additions that aren't necessarily well thought out as they've not been part of a considered, planned project proposal.

My view is that revamps should be targeted at the oldest areas first and work through those locations to the newer areas. There simply aren't enough builders to maintain all parts of the map at oncee. Eriador has been largely ignored for the last 7 years at least (I'm not really counting Lond Daer as it's more Enedwaith than the main part of Eriador), whereas Gondor has had work on it for the last 8(?) years. There needs to be the acceptance that one day Gondor will be the most outdated region on the server, in the same way that Eriador is at the moment.

I've been here nearly 4 years, and am yet to see an entirely new project started. Revamps should not be our focus.

We shouldn't do rohan and Eriador roads because unlike a lot of Gondor, the terrain there will need to be redone which means redoing the roads again. Remember that 90% of eriador and Rohan are the random world painter noise pattern so there really isn't any sense in redoing those paths.

 

[TheStephen]

Gondor isn't one area though, It's broken up into the sub-regions Tolkien specified and has been treated as such by projects: Anorien, Belfalas, Anfalas, Ithilien etc. Some of which are significantly older than others, and some of which people have definitely argued for terrain work to be carried out on (looking at Ithilien and Lebennin). The quality in Belfalas varies, but it also varies significantly in comparison to other regions of Gondor. Trying to get consistency across such a vast area is a waste of time. We simply don't have the builders to achieve it. Revamping the roads in say Lebennin creates the same juxtaposition between a high quality road and lesser quality landscape as you would find in Rohan or Eriador.

I could argue the same thing about rivers in Gondor: some are far better (Eriol's Henneth Annun river) than others (Lebennin rivers). It's exactly the same principle, but I know we don't have the people to do it, nor do I think it's worth the time and effort to do it at this stage. Other things should be prioritised.

As for doing things whilst waiting for things like forest update or Mordor textures to arrive (I'm assuming that's what you meant): this has essentially resulted in no completely new project being started for 4 years. Waiting on things you don't have a solid release date for isn't a good way to progress a project. I could have sat and wanted for more blocks to blend the Entwash into the Anduin, but I've made do with what I have (which is quite a lot really). People need to work what they've got, rather than wishing they had more. The build team are quite capable of producing new stuff for the map with what they've got.

If it's a case of keeping the wider community busy: Hypr has been advertising plots in the Upper Anduin Vale, Linhir has had plots, the Entwash/Anduin has had plots, Moria West Gate has had plots, Emyn Arnen has had plots... The number of jobs is significantly greater than it used to be:
Between Jan & June 2022 there were 27 jobs
Between Jan and 14th May 2023 there were 70 jobs. That's an average of ~4 per week over that period.

There are plenty of opportunities for people out there. Yes we're hit-and-miss on non-European timezones, but there are still opportunities out there for people.
I just do not see the point in investing more time doing more revamps in Gondor. Finish it and leave it.

 

[Wyattrox03]

Well in any case I'll say that there are people who might want this, I could run them myself and take no more team away from other projects and just do jobs with adventurers on it. I feel like there are a few things that we should strive to eventually have consistent across the map: roads and mines. That's just my opinion though but don't say there aren't any people to do it because it could definitely be done.

 

[SamXAB]

Bruh

 

[Greetly]

It would take forever, and imo adds little to the experience. Would rather focus on new builds

 

[Mershy]

Well in any case I'll say that there are people who might want this, I could run them myself and take no more team away from other projects and just do jobs with adventurers on it. I feel like there are a few things that we should strive to eventually have consistent across the map: roads and mines. That's just my opinion though but don't say there aren't any people to do it because it could definitely be done.

U have stuff to do first

 

[draonic_slayer]

Rwyland sempai let me do ittttt I've been asking forevvvvvvvver . ROAD REVAMP TIME BABY

Why are you like this wyatt


On a more related note to your post Nic, personally, I do not feel that this is something we should be doing, around 75% of Gondor is "finished" there is no reason to go making edits around the "edges" with New Blocks and Building styles that are going to make builds around them look out of place. As Stephen has mentioned there has been an increase in jobs over the past year along with a lot of plots being open for the community to help build in.

 

[Wyattrox03]

View attachment 26949
Why are you like this wyatt


On a more related note to your post Nic, personally, I do not feel that this is something we should be doing, around 75% of Gondor is "finished" there is no reason to go making edits around the "edges" with New Blocks and Building styles that are going to make builds around them look out of place. As Stephen has mentioned there has been an increase in jobs over the past year along with a lot of plots being open for the community to help build in.

Cope. Seethe. Mald.