• Welcome to MCME!

    Minecraft Middle Earth is a Minecraft community that recreates the world described by JRR Tolkien and his writings. Everyone can participate in organized events in which we collaborate to create major landmarks, terrain, caves, castles, towns, farms and more.

    To get started, visit The New Player Guide

    Joining the server

    Joining the server can be done straight away, but you will have to pass the New Player Quiz. Use the The New Player Guide to get acquainted with our community.

    IP: build.mcmiddleearth.com

What was Ungoliant?

HoverKing

MCME Connaisseur
Supporter
Commoner
Credits
0
XP
1
A Nameless Thing? An embodiment of darkness? An evil spirit? A maia? A vala?? An alien???
There are quite a few things that Tolkien left enshrouded in mystery, and the true nature of Ungoliant is one of them. But there are hints, and we can follow those hints as we try to better our understanding and form some theories.

Before we dive into what Ungoliant is, here is a brief exposition of who she is: Ungoliantë (Quenya for "Gloomweaver, Shadow Spider"), better known by her Sindarised name Ungoliant (the proper Sindarin form being Delduthling), was a gigantic spider-creature that dwelt in Avathar - a dark strip of land at the feet of the Pelóri Mountains in south-eastern Aman, shadowed from the light of the Two Trees in Valinor. Ungoliant would later help Melkor destroy the Two Trees, casting the world into darkness. Following Melkor to Beleriand she demanded the Silmarils for herself, and would've overpowered Melkor if the Balrogs had not come to his aid and driven Ungoliant away. It is said that she ended up devouring herself in her endless hunger - but before she did, at some point, she also spawned Shelob.

In older versions of the legendarium, as seen in the Book of Lost Tales (Part 1), Ungoliant had several other names: Ungwë Lianti, Ungweliant, Gwerlum [the Black], Gungliont, Ungoliont and Móru.
Móru, back in this early version of the tale, is said to be the 'Primeval Night' that is personified in the form of a great spider. In this version Tolkien even goes on to speculate about Ungwë Lianti's origin:
Now however that evil one [Melko] wanders the dark plains of Eruman, and farther south than anyone had yet penetrated he found a region of the deepest gloom [...] here dwelt the primeval spirit Móru whom even the Valar know not whence or when she came, and the folk of Earth have given her many names. Mayhap she was bred of mists and darkness on the confines of the Shadowy Seas, in that utter dark that came between the overthrow of the Lamps and the kindling of the Trees, but more like she has always been; and she it is who loveth still to dwell in that black place taking the guise of an unlovely spider, spinning a clinging gossamer of gloom that catches in its mesh stars and moons and all bright things that sail the airs.
(The Book of Lost Tales: Part I, "The Theft of Melko", p. 167)

However, the more well known (and far more relevant) version of the story is the one we see in the published Silmarillion:
There, beneath the sheer walls of the mountains and the cold dark sea, the shadows were deepest and thickest in the world; and there in Avathar, secret and unknown, Ungoliant had made her abode. The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwë, and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service. But she had disowned her Master [...]
(The Silmarillion, "Of the Darkening of Valinor")

Here we can note some remarkable changes from the original version: now it is the Eldar who "knew not whence she came", rather than the Valar; and we are also told that perhaps* in the past she was in the service of Melkor.
(*) I say 'perhaps' because of the wording "but some have said..." - intentional ambiguity on Tolkien's part.
Unfortunately, however, this still does not answer the question sufficiently. So we must dig deeper.

Now turning to look at the Later Quenta Silmarillion - the more mature form of the tales told in the published Silmarillion, which in many cases (or perhaps indeed in all cases) reflects Tolkien's conception of the legendarium more accurately. In Morgoth's Ring we see two more versions of the text:
And there secretly Ungoliantë had made her abode. Whence she came none of the Eldar know, but maybe she came to the South out of the darkness of Eä, in that time when Melkor destroyed the lights of Illuin and Ormal, and because of his dwelling in the North the heed of the Valar was turned most thither and the South was long forgotten.
(Morgoth's Ring, "The Annals of Aman", 1492; p.98: §105)
It may well be that Melkor, if none other, knew of her being and her abode, and that she was in the beginning one of those that he had corrupted to his service.
(§106)
In that land, secret and unknown, dwelt in spider's form Ungoliantë, weaver of dark webs. It is not told whence she came; from the Outer Darkness, maybe, that lies in Eä beyond the walls of the World.
(Morgoth's Ring, "The Later Quenta Silmarillion", "(I) The First Phase: (6) Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor"; p.190: §55)
In Avathar, secret and unknown save to Melkor, dwelt Ungoliantë, and she had taken spider's form, and was a weaver of dark webs. It is not known whence she came, though among the Eldar it was said that in ages long before she had descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the light in the kingdom of Manwë. But she had disowned her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust, taking all things to herself to feed her emptiness.
(Morgoth's Ring, "The Later Quenta Silmarillion", "(II) The Second Phase: Of the Darkening of Valinor"; p.284: §55c)

The various versions are similar yet different. It appears that Tolkien's latest conception, though still very vague, views Ungoliant as a creature that came from the "Outer Darkness", and very probably a servant of Melkor, at one point, who then went rogue and left his service to live in Avathar, where he would later find her and re-enlist her aid. It is suggested, however, that the Valar had no knowledge of her, which complicates the picture. It does however seem clear that Ungoliant is quite different in her nature from the Nameless Things, at the very least.

From here we enter the realm of speculation, and there can be a great many ways to interpret the quotes above. Indeed it can even be interpreted that Ungoliant was some kind of alien! But my opinion is somewhat different.

There is an interesting passage in the Ainulindalë, that caught my eye some time ago:
Thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Ilúvatar beyond the confines of the World; but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took the leave of Ilúvatar and descended into it. [...] And therefore they are named the Valar, the Powers of the World.
(The Silmarillion, "Ainulindalë")

Thus the Valar and the Maiar were in fact only some of the Ainur, whereas the rest of them decided to remain with Eru outside of Eä.

Therefore it can even be theorised that Ungoliant was in fact an Ainu and was "one of those that [Melkor] had corrupted to his service". The Valar's ignorance of her can perhaps be explained in that they did not know what she had become, or perhaps they did not even know that she entered Eä to begin with - for it is said that she "had descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the light in the kingdom of Manwë", and thus (within the scope of this theory) would not have been one of the Ainur that entered Eä at first, but rather decided to enter it later. By this reasoning, it may even be argued that Ungoliant, had she joined the Ainur who entered Eä originally rather than entering it later, might have been counted among the Valar herself - her ability to overpower Melkor, though 'fuelled' at the time by the power of the Two Trees that she had consumed, is a remarkable feat.

To clarify - Ungoliant is not a Vala. She is probably not a Maia either. And if we are to be perfectly honest, we really don't know what she is, and that is fun aspect of it... But perhaps, had her story been slightly different, she may have been a Vala (or at least a Maia); it is an interesting prospect, though speculative as it is.

Go on. Crucify me.
 
I suppose I’ll add my little tidbit to this, and bring in another discussion at the same time, lol. I have always, personally, considered Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant as two similar beings, yet opposite. Tom would be the physical embodiment of light, giving, and perhaps life, whereas his opposite is Ungoliant, the carnal form of darkness, greed, and maybe death. I like the idea that Iluvatar placed these two beings into Arda as examples and reminders of the two sides of, I want to say human nature, but since we are dealing with multiple species, the nature of a living, and rational thinking species. Or perhaps, rather than Iluvatar placing them in Arda, they are other primordial beings, products of the Eternal Flame maybe, that have descended into Arda to provide that example/reminder.

Also, I like this idea of having discussions of more prominent and widespread lore questions here on the forums in a more accessible and archived manner.
 
To quote Bombadil himself:
’[...] Eldest, that’s what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.’
(The Fellowship of the Ring, "In the House of Tom Bombadil"; emphasis mine)

Tom Bombadil was in Arda even before Melkor entered Eä to begin with. In the Silmarillion we are told that Melkor entered Eä along with the rest of the Valar:
[...] now they had entered in at the beginning of Time, and the Valar perceived that the World had been but foreshadowed and foresung, and they must achieve it. [...] but Melkor too was there from the first, and he meddled in all that was done, turning it if he might to his own desires and purposes; and he kindled great fires.
(The Silmarillion, "Ainulindalë")

And in an older version of the story he was said to have entered first:
Now swiftly as they fared Melko was there before them, having rushed headlong flaming through the airs in the impetuosity of his speed, and there was a tumult of the sea where he had dived and the mountains above him spouted flames and the earth gaped and rocked [...]
(The Book of Lost Tales: Part I, "The Coming of the Valar", p. 65)

In other words it follows that Bombadil was there before any of the Ainur entered the world, which would indeed make him eldest (though we should not debate the meaning of this in this thread). This means that Bombadil was inside Eä from the very beginning, and never 'entered' it at all.

Ungoliant, on the other hand, is clearly described (in multiple versions, see my quotes above) to have "descended from the darkness that lies about Arda" (or better yet, "from the Outer Darkness, maybe, that lies in Eä beyond the walls of the World") - it does not seem to me that her origin is within the world. Thus I would say that Ungoliant and Bombadil, though both equally mysterious (though perhaps not equally important), are clearly not beings of the same kind.
 
Great research!
After reading all the quotes I don't see any hint that Ungoliant came from outside of Ëa. It's always about Ungonliant came from outside of Arda not outside of Ëa. This makes me believe she wasn't akin to the Ainur.
 
In other words it follows that Bombadil was there before any of the Ainur entered the world, which would indeed make him eldest (though we should not debate the meaning of this in this thread). This means that Bombadil was inside Eä from the very beginning, and never 'entered' it at all.
Whats saying he didn't enter it before the Valar and Melkor? All we know about Tom is that he was there at the beginning. We also don't know when Ungoliant descended into Arda. I see it as entirely possible that they both came down before any of the Ainur.
 
Whats saying he didn't enter it before the Valar and Melkor? All we know about Tom is that he was there at the beginning. We also don't know when Ungoliant descended into Arda. I see it as entirely possible that they both came down before any of the Ainur.

From the quote I provided earlier:
"[...] now they had entered in at the beginning of Time [...]" (The Silmarillion, "Ainulindalë")

I would posit that there was no 'before' the coming of the Valar, as that was when time 'began'. So the Valar entered the world first and foremost, "in the beginning" to be a bit biblical (or should I say "i yestassë" to be a bit Elvish? :p ); it does not seem possible for anyone/anything to have entered before them, only for some beings to already be there.
 
Top